In the news today: Hand-held HAM radio operators rescue man who had fallen 40 feet

[moleculo]

If you just open it up to indiscriminate use, you will get what happens on 11 Meters. CHAOS!

Bullshit. That's what they said about voting, too. That's what the church said about reading in the middle ages. You can open it up some in a way that doesn't let people get hurt and teaches people the basic rules...just like getting a driver's license. Hell, it's even legal for an 8 year old to ride dirt bikes without a license in off-road areas. An 8 year old can operate a machine that can kill both him and others without a license, but not use a ham radio. I say there is a place for an entry level license with restricted operating privileges and power levels that is more basic and easier than what we have now. Who cares if all they want to do is talk to each other and they don't care about advancing the technologies of radio. Neither do 90 percent of the people on 75 meters.

The idea that chaos will ensue if we make it easier for people to get into ham radio is closed minded; it's an unhealthy fear of the unkown; it is elitist; it won't help promote ham radio. That idea has been proven throughout history to be just plain dead wrong every time it has been applied to *whatever* some people want control of over others.

[mackmobile43]

I can talk on hf freqs if I choose without a license but I don't and there are very few freqs I talk on in the 11 meter band that are out of band but I don't make a practice of it.

In an emergency I could not broadcast an SOS in the hf band to say lives for fear of prosecution.

A little bit of useful/stable bandwidth, is that too much to ask?

[Peddler]

The idea that chaos will ensue if we make it easier for people to get into ham radio is closed minded; it's an unhealthy fear of the unkown; it is elitist; it won't help promote ham radio. That idea has been proven throughout history to be just plain dead wrong every time it has been applied to *whatever* some people want control of over others.

Well said.

[C W Morse]

UMMMMMM..........you might have caught the part of the sentence where I said, "or malfunctions"..........which is any correction needed.
People CAN make change out of a cigar box if needed(Or they USED to) Today, they have to close the store. In those "old" days, they actually TAUGHT kids to make change in the schools! What a concept.
Learning.

CWM

[C W Morse]

Originally Posted by Peddler

Well said.

I would simply refer you back to CB. SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOOOWLLLLLLLLL, ROOOOOAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR! All caused by the actions of the users. More POWAH, MO POWAH, BIGGER AMP, MO WATTS!

ALL someone has to do is take a little test. It ain't perfect, but it is to (hopefully) promote SAFETY (first), organization, on-air procecures that "mesh" with other users (Well, it didn't work with the amateur family that lost their lives putting up an antenna), and the ability to blend in with other services with efficient message-handling procedures when there is a disaster. Sure, it ain't perfect.

And how about the PRIDE in achievement when you take ANY test, easy or hard, to gain access to THOUSANDS of "them channels" as opposed to just going out to Joe's Truck CB Shop and buying AN APPLIANCE where the "learning" consists of hearsay and legend (you gotta have a 'certain' length of coax, you MUST have a BIG AMP to talk any distance, etc)? I'll take THAT anyday over..........................................

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH, HOOOOOOOWLLLLLL, ROOOOOOOORRRRRRRRR!
"I've got no panties on" (hurl, barf, erp!!!!!!!!!!!

CWM

[mackmobile43]

Originally Posted by C W Morse

UMMMMMM..........you might have caught the part of the sentence where I said, "or malfunctions"..........which is any correction needed.
People CAN make change out of a cigar box if needed(Or they USED to) Today, they have to close the store. In those "old" days, they actually TAUGHT kids to make change in the schools! What a concept.
Learning.

CWM

Well you need to start living in the present as no one does business from a cigar box in this day and age and if the power goes out then business stops because the chain of information in broken with the corporation.

And Yes I was taught to count change when I was in school but I don't go out looking for businesses who's employees don't count my change back because the register has already done that for them, it's the way they do business today, more efficient plus me being the person I am I count my own change right in front of the register before I leave and that way I don't get short changed.

Getting short changed is what's happening to the communications hobby and it's damn well good time that that stops.

[C W Morse]

Originally Posted by moleculo

Bullshit. That's what they said about voting, too. That's what the church said about reading in the middle ages. You can open it up some in a way that doesn't let people get hurt and teaches people the basic rules...just like getting a driver's license. Hell, it's even legal for an 8 year old to ride dirt bikes without a license in off-road areas. An 8 year old can operate a machine that can kill both him and others without a license, but not use a ham radio. I say there is a place for an entry level license with restricted operating privileges and power levels that is more basic and easier than what we have now. Who cares if all they want to do is talk to each other and they don't care about advancing the technologies of radio. Neither do 90 percent of the people on 75 meters.

The idea that chaos will ensue if we make it easier for people to get into ham radio is closed minded; it's an unhealthy fear of the unkown; it is elitist; it won't help promote ham radio. That idea has been proven throughout history to be just plain dead wrong every time it has been applied to *whatever* some people want control of over others.

"An 8 y/o can't use a ham radio" ?????????????? Are you even READING this in the thread? I SAID, "I just got thru talking with AN 8 Year Old on 75 Meters. " Funny. He's been licensed since AGE 6!!! The "elistist" (as you call it) didn't prevent HIM from getting the ticket. There is NO age limit. If you can PASS the test, you get the license! Simple.

People just want EVERYTHING handed to them on a platter and don't want to work for it. If he is required to DO something, it's too much trouble. Society has been raised on a diet of I-am-entitled-the-world-"owes"-me-and-I-am-entitled-to-sit-on-my-a**-and-do-nothing-for-everything! Even a little test is too much. C'mon! "Elitist"? I DOUBT it!!!!!!! Everybody gets to take the same test. And FOR that and the willingness to follow a few rules that DO promote safety, courtesy, on-air procedures, and organization, you get THOUSANDS of frequencies (not "channels") and technology not offered by CB radios. Everybody has an equal chance.
I don't see ANYTHING "elitist" about it!!!! Ain't it funny how quick we are to assign labels to people! If you don't like illegal immigration, you're a "racist"! The discussion of race didn't even enter into it, but if you don't LIKE a horde of ILLEGAL people sneaking into our country, you're a racist! (I don't care if he is a little green man from MARS, if he sneaks into the country without permission, he has NO right or reason to BE here and should be forced OUT) If you don't like having illegal radio people invading the bands you studied to use, you are an "elitist", but, yet, YOU have the same opportunity I and every other ham had---including that 8 year old!!!!

[Happy_Hamer]

This one time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at band camp,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[mackmobile43]

Originally Posted by C W Morse

I would simply refer you back to CB. SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOOOOOOOOWLLLLLLLLL, ROOOOOAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR! All caused by the actions of the users. More POWAH, MO POWAH, BIGGER AMP, MO WATTS!

ALL someone has to do is take a little test. It ain't perfect, but it is to (hopefully) promote SAFETY (first), organization, on-air procecures that "mesh" with other users (Well, it didn't work with the amateur family that lost their lives putting up an antenna), and the ability to blend in with other services with efficient message-handling procedures when there is a disaster. Sure, it ain't perfect.

And how about the PRIDE in achievement when you take ANY test, easy or hard, to gain access to THOUSANDS of "them channels" as opposed to just going out to Joe's Truck CB Shop and buying AN APPLIANCE where the "learning" consists of hearsay and legend (you gotta have a 'certain' length of coax, you MUST have a BIG AMP to talk any distance, etc)? I'll take THAT anyday over..........................................

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH, HOOOOOOOWLLLLLL, ROOOOOOOORRRRRRRRR!
"I've got no panties on" (hurl, barf, erp!!!!!!!!!!!

CWM

And just why to you think that free banding is so prevalent? because the 11 meter band is so crowded and instead of the FCC annexing more band width they choose to turn a blind eye to the fact that the U.S.A. has an ever growing population that for what ever reason still chooses to use the CB band.

There are many frequencies out there that are reserved for a just in case situation and not being used because the gov or military think it may come in handy later(post 1947) and has not till this day come to fruition.

No one is saying take the amateur's frequency, that's a good thing for people who think they deserve that bandwidth but for the people who'd like to talk to other nationalities who have to deal with old soar heads will never have chance to use a band that does not require high amounts of power.

Thank you for killing what if any enthusiasm there is left for this hobby.

[Sonwatcher]

In 1980 the FCC itself had come to the conclusion that they would open up the 1st portion of the "freeband" area for CB long distance hobby contact. It was to have a non-technical test and allowed the use of a VFO . The ARRL and some of the Ham community raised up against it and it was squashed. But despite that it revealed to me that the FCC itself saw nothing wrong with what they proposed to do and allow . They recognized that CB had evolved into a Hobby form of DX contacting .
Ham-Shack.com : The History Of Amateur Radio

In 1967 those that were licensed as Technicians were not allowed to use 2m for communications just experimentation. Thousands defied the FCC and used 2m for communications. In 1978 the FCC recognized Techs as "experimenters" was obsolete and evolved ( in reality a result of out and out disobeying the rules ). No doubt some that we praise today as Old time Hams were part of this outlaw group.
Ham-Shack.com : The History Of Amateur Radio

The first was a group that almost got a blessing from the FCC because of them not following the rules. Evolved to FCC recognized hobby form.

The 2nd group of licensed operators got a blessing from the FCC for their out and out breaking of the rules. They "evolved" . The privilege of being a "communicator" for Technicians today is a result of thousands of Hams (law abiding Hams) that broke the rules of the FCC.

I wonder if those thousands of Hams (not just a few) that defied the FCC and rag-chewed on 2m when they were not allowed think they are any different today than the one's they point their finger at ?

I am not advocating breaking the rules , WE NEED THEM, I just recognize that those that hold the rules so highly have tread down the same road and ended up rewarded for their rule breaking . These are the first one's that will say change the rules in a legal manner yet today enjoy privileges brought about by those that were "outlaws" and stood in the face of the FCC and did what THEY wanted to do despite the rules.
So it goes to show that license and rules do not always equal order and obedience .