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  #9  
Old 11-22-2006, 01:10 AM
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any word?

I ordered an i10k for me, but my dad is putting this v58 up since he burnt up his last antenna.. I sure don't want him to burn this one up

Peace,
Josh
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2006, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chief
Hello Josh! Watch for it in the next few weeks! I'll post pictures and a parts list as well as where to buy the parts. I may even sell kits with a new assembly manual written by me.

It still won't beat the I-10K, but it will kill an A-99!
Hey MC, for me your last statement is ridiculous, but just in case it were possible, do you think this maybe why CB is dying? The I-10K has killed all the thousands of A99's out there!

You know, we never did get to test in the Mojave a while back, but had we done so could you now give us an idea of what you think those results would have shown? You must have some idea about those results in order to make such statements as noted above. Maybe you could give us a little description of those test and describe how and what the results were likely to show. I know you were planning to place monitoring stations at various points and then do some testing to these stations. If so, then give us a good guess as to what those results might have been. I know this will be a guess, but I would sure like to know what you mean when you say
Quote:
It still won't beat the I-10K, but it will kill an A-99!
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  #11  
Old 11-22-2006, 10:01 AM
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Distortion, I'll post the info on the V58 this weekend. I'm finishing putting one up for a local today and I'll take some pictures.

------------------------------------------------------

Marconi; always on the other end of the discussion. The I-10K works better. If you don't understand how or why, I'd be wasting my time here trying to explain it (yet again).

Since you own both, why not tell us why you think the differences between these two antennas are minor. Its quite possible that I can be wrong, but can everyone who owns one also be wrong? There are WAY too many people who agree with me and I don't kno of a single person who would agree with your summation.

The A99 has a lossy feed point. This can be tested by applying a few watts to the antenna and watching that power be converted into heat at the feed point, which WILL melt down. The quality of build is also lacking.

The A99 at $40.00 is a perfect example of "getting what you pay for." Does it work? YEP! Everything works.

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  #12  
Old 11-23-2006, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chief
Distortion, I'll post the info on the V58 this weekend. I'm finishing putting one up for a local today and I'll take some pictures.

------------------------------------------------------

Marconi; always on the other end of the discussion. The I-10K works better. If you don't understand how or why, I'd be wasting my time here trying to explain it (yet again).

Since you own both, why not tell us why you think the differences between these two antennas are minor. Its quite possible that I can be wrong, but can everyone who owns one also be wrong? There are WAY too many people who agree with me and I don't kno of a single person who would agree with your summation.

The A99 has a lossy feed point. This can be tested by applying a few watts to the antenna and watching that power be converted into heat at the feed point, which WILL melt down. The quality of build is also lacking.

The A99 at $40.00 is a perfect example of "getting what you pay for." Does it work? YEP! Everything works.
Well MC I don't question that the I-10K works better and I did not suggest anything to the contrary. The simple fact that the I-10K has an effective GP attached tells us that it probably is the better design.

In other discussions you have claimed that the method of feeding also gives the I-10K a definite advantage. I have never read a definitive opinion on the subject of feed point losses while comparing one feeding method apposed to another. I mean one that really says one way or another. In fact, other than in the most general of terms, I have never heard you state why you believe the feeder on the I-10K performs better than other methods. You just throw out the claim. If you have such a report, then provide me the source. I can't prove my sense of the issue, but I do have an opinion on the subject. Maybe we could have a discussion specifically about that some time.

Sure the I-10K will allow for higher wattage input. This has only to do with the nature of resistance of conductors and conductor cross-sectional area. It’s just my guess, but I would imagine if one built an A99 feeder on the same effective scale as the I-10K then both would probably perform about the same under high power.

My argument here has only to do with your ridiculous claim of the I-10K being “the killer” as you note. It has nothing to do with my preference or understanding of which is better and why. You made the claims, I just would like to know how you come about those claims. You may be right and then I would have to rethink my experiences over all these years.

Happy Thanksgiving to all you guys!
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
Well MC I don't question that the I-10K works better and I did not suggest anything to the contrary. The simple fact that the I-10K has an effective GP attached tells us that it probably is the better design.
Many antennas have ground planes. This is not what makes the I-10K such an effective antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
In other discussions you have claimed that the method of feeding also gives the I-10K a definite advantage. I have never read a definitive opinion on the subject of feed point losses while comparing one feeding method apposed to another. I mean one that really says one way or another.
OK, so you HAVE read it somewhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
In fact, other than in the most general of terms, I have never heard you state why you believe the feeder on the I-10K performs better than other methods. You just throw out the claim. If you have such a report, then provide me the source.
I have stated over and over why i believe it has a superior feed system. You haven't been paying attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
I can't prove my sense of the issue, but I do have an opinion on the subject. Maybe we could have a discussion specifically about that some time.
I can, and have. We can have that discussion again if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
Sure the I-10K will allow for higher wattage input. This has only to do with the nature of resistance of conductors and conductor cross-sectional area.
See, maybe you WERE paying attention! Good for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
It’s just my guess, but I would imagine if one built an A99 feeder on the same effective scale as the I-10K then both would probably perform about the same under high power.
Let me save you some time......NOPE! But by all means, don't take MY word for it, build one and let us know what I already know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
My argument here has only to do with your ridiculous claim of the I-10K being “the killer” as you note. It has nothing to do with my preference or understanding of which is better and why. You made the claims, I just would like to know how you come about those claims.
The fact that the I-10K is superior to ANY other ground plane available today is not just MY opinion. Haven't you heard the others? You yourself own one and have said it is a better antenna. I call it "killer" because it just works better! I KNOW this because I've built them, tested them, rebuilt them, and have mucho experience with many other antennas. Do you think it is easy for me to say the the I-10K beats my beloved Avanti Sigma 5/8? I've done it and therefore, I KNOW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi
You may be right and then I would have to rethink my experiences over all these years.
Me being right and you rethinking your experiences are two completely different subjects. Don't try to confuse the two!

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  #14  
Old 11-23-2006, 12:22 PM
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"I just would like to know how you come about those claims."

the same way he comes up with the claim that the SigmaIV is a half wave antenna, just pulls it out of thin air in the face of countless factual instances of authoritative evidence to the contrary. if you didn't know any better you'd think he was a front man for the I10K. he's never disproven the fact that the bottom 1/4 wavelength of the SigmaIV does radiate and anyone would think that would be the coup d'etat that would settle the argument once and for all but that will never happen because field strength tests taken below his imaginary feedpoint confirm otherwise.

his continual barblike statements to the contrary are simply so much flamebait tossed out for the purpose of generating endlessly mindless discussions about something that is simply a non-issue among those who can read and are able to measure antenna parameters for themselves. it simply boils down to the fact that in his mind the SigmaIV just has to be a 1/2 wave to save face in the presence of his venerable ground plane.

in the meantime as opinion is stacked on top of opinion he robs others of the desire to go and find the answers to these questions for themselves by simply repeating the fallacy over and over again because as we know if the lie is repeated long enough and often enough some will inevitably consider it to be the truth as his ramblings go unchallenged. such is the existence of the self proclaimed antenna guru.

don't ignore your years of experience bob. it's the only thing that keeps you from buying into the lies and just remember, you're in good company. while there may be much to pursue, you have nothing to re-think and no good reason to do so.

"a man convinced against his will is of his own opinion still."
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2006, 06:54 PM
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When it comes down to it in the real world. All of these ground planes are real close in gain.You can run a $50.00 ground plane and $450.00 ground plane.You are splitting hairs on gain.Now some are built better but that is about it.Cheerleaders flame on!
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  #16  
Old 11-23-2006, 08:54 PM
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true dat. only real gains come when set up right. is from a 3,5 or 7 element beam. PERIOD. other than that like they have allways said. a 5/8 isa 5/8.

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