licensed amateurs are not required to use type accepted equipment so I still don't see the exact difference

dudmuck has it right,
that is what i am asking about.

specifically, i am asking about the so called "ebay police" that flag any radio that does more than 40 channels, while any joe blow can buy a ham rig from them, and operate the exact same freqs. at even higher power levels than many export radios.

im talking about a level playing field here folks.
im not talking about radios that are not in this country yet, i am talking about the radios that are already here.

so, to have a level playing field; shouldnt the hams that are selling HF transceivers on ebay have to get proof that the buyer is a licensed ham, and since that proof cant really legally be confirmed on each sale, shouldnt ebay ban the sale of HF transceivers too?

i mean, the end result is the same no matter whether the unlicensed buyer buys an export or a ham radio, he is still doing the same things with it.

so, CW did answer my first question about the double standard, and his answer does make sense.
however, the point im trying to make is not just about the FCC, its about ebay too.
LC

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well yeah, but what's really going on?

hmm, thats weird, the thread title shows two pages, but clicking the second page takes you to the first.
maybe someone posted and then removed it.
maybe someone removed it for them.LOL j/k

this topic seemed hot a day or two ago, now no one cares.
did i hit a nerve?

probably not...

i may not know the answers, but there does seem to be a bit of a double standard going on on ebay these days with regard to who is allowed to sell what to whom.

maybe i am wrong.
anyone?
LC

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well yeah, but what's really going on?

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Well...in a word, YES. It is a double standard.

However, the FCC uses a multi-pronged decision making process in determining a radio's exact classification, and (thankfully) it seems they place most weight on the question of intent. In other words, what's the most likely intended use for a given radio? Is it sold primarily as an amateur radio intended to be used on an amateur band OR a radio sold as an "amateur radio" and intended to be used on CB or freeband?

In other words, in the FCC's eyes, if it looks like a CB, and is sold to CB users, in a CB outlet, and can be modified to run on CB freqs, then probably it's a CB, regardless of manufacturer claims to the otherwise.

Now that being said, the "nightmare scenario" that I've talked about many times here is when the FCC goes into a truck stop and finds an ICOM 706 or some other bona fide amateur radio sitting alongside a Connex or Galaxy or whatever. What then???

I think at that point the FCC would have to clarify their rules and remove the "blanket" radio classification scheme that is in effect now. In other words, they would have to say "We find that this particular (insert radio here) offered for sale on this date and this location falls under the definition of "CB transmitter" as set forth in the rules."

I think this would be good and equitable for everyone involved. Legitimate, legal use of these radios would be unimpeded, but the black market trafficking and use would still be prohibited.

When the jumper in my Ranger 2950DX is moved to allow more than 10/12m operation it also enables the MAN button to access a band that shows up on the display as CH1-40 including the "a" channels. Now tell me that was not intentionally meant to be used as a CB radio. When I tune through 27 MHz on my FT-857 all the display shows is the freq,not channels.Another thing is that since ham radios do not need certification one can build one and put it on the air providing it meets certain emmission regulations. There is nothing preventing the builder from including 11m coverage if he was so inclined to do so but he would still not be legally able to use it there.Ham radios have pretty much always been able to be modified to cover outside the bands to cover MARS and CAP freqs as well as others. WHY? Because the hams have a history of actually being helpfull to these radio services and were granted the authority to use their own gear on those freqs, and ONLY those freqs. with the proper authorisation and training. The older ham band only radios only covered the ham bands +/- about 100 KHz or so but with the new solidstate broadband amps in the finals and full coverage receivers they ended up opening the entire range.I suppose the manufacturers could write a software program to allow just +/- 100 KHz or so on either side of the ham band but until the FCC says they have too they won't. BTW my Icom IC-735 came with the ability to TX +/- 100 KHz either side of the band but no more until a diode or two were clipped and then it opened the entire range INCLUDING the top end of the AM broadcast band.

I can mod out my Kenwood 450 and program channels 1-28 in memory slots...does that make it a CB as well? Or even better take an old low-band Motorola and reprogram it. Is it a CB?

It wasn't that long ago that Ranger advertised in such "popular" CB rags such as QST and CQ. I can remember when they were sold by such CB outles as AES and HRO. And the Ranger radios have been reviewed and tested by the ARRL lab. Their conclusion: not the best in the world, but a good start for the new 10M or 6M enthusiast.

good replies.
Somebody could take an icom-706 or ft-857d, etc. Do the mars/cap mod, program the memories with CB channels (CH1 = 26.965, etc), and then it becomes a CB radio.

A little bit of history for perspective.
CB radio service on 27MHz was created 50 years ago.
Technology was quite a bit different back then.
There were no PLL frequency synthesizers, only crystals, and they were expensive.
I doubt anybody thought there would be such a thing as freebanding back then because none of the CB radios had VFO, only crystals.
Also, there were no "pills" back in 1958. Power amplifiers were relatively rare, and expensive tube models.
Today, PLL circuits are cheap and work well. Freebanding is easy.
Commonly available transistors of today (such as 2sc2879) make running big watts relatively simple compared to when the CB service was created.

Technology has moved forward in a way that nobody could have predicted 50 years ago, and that's a big reason why this situation exists today. I think GMRS/FRS represents the original intention of CB back in 1958, yet the technology to implement it didn't exists at that time. 27MHz was the only viable spectrum to be used for CB given the tube technology of the time.

So now we are left with vague laws to determine what is a CB and whats not. End the end its arbitrarily what the FCC says is a CB.

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"Y'all mind hanging back? You're jamming my frequencies" -- Tangina in Poltergeist

Both of you guys missed the point. Since the 2950DX comes straight from the factory with the ability to display CB channels already programmed into it's software it is pretty much proof that one of the intentions of the manufacturer was for it to operate on CB channels as a CB.As for labeling the memories in a ham radio,that is something that you have to do yourself. It is not written into the radio's software to display CH-19 everytime the radio is tuned to 27.185.


Dudmuck wrote:

"So now we are left with vague laws to determine what is a CB and whats not. End the end its arbitrarily what the FCC says is a CB. "

What's so vague about it? It looks pretty much spelled out with the "list" the FCC has on what it considers illegal radios. The problem is that people just do not want to hear it.

I am confused. No really. Are you trying to be sarcastic or what? QST? CQ? AES? HRO? CB related companies?

BTW the Ranger 6m radio could not be modified to operate out of band at all and one model of the 2950DX could not be modded for out of band either.Those were the ones sold in the ham shops. Many a CB'er got burned when they thought they could modify their new purchase only to find it was not possible.

When you have a radio that LOOKS like a CB, has chrome faces and rebel flags, has "bands" of "channels" (channels have NOTHING whatsoever to do with amateur radio), are SOLD in truck stops and CB shops, PROMOTED TO CBers as having FAR more watts than the 4 allowed, BRAG on having 160, 200, 280, 320 "channels", NOBODY is being fooled by the charade OR the lettering that is put on the phony "amateur" radios---Least OF ALL FCC!!! Most ALL radios can be made to do things they are not intended to do. The reasons for the liberal parameters allowed for the REAL amateur radios is that FOR THE MOST PART, THE AMATEURS HAVE PROVEN TO BE RELIABLE, PROVEN RESOURCES AND, UNLIKE THE OUTLAW MINIONS OF CB, GENERALLY BEHAVE THEMSELVES! Two examples of this are MARS (Military Affiliate Radio System) and members of the Civil Air Patrol who may nor may NOT be amateur radio operators. CAP members operate under completely MILITARY authority, and until recently, often used Amateur radio equipment extensively. Often amateur sets such as the Icom 706 were routinely modified to operate on CAP frequencies according to the parameters set by US Air Force, NOT by FCC. This was done because of expense that would be incurred IF CAP members were forced to buy military (NTIA-compliant) equipment. They are volunteers (as are MARS members) and cannot afford to pay $2500+ for HF and VHF equipment.

Therefore, it matters not that a relatively small group of operationally non-essential (CB) operators who, unfortunately, show a penchant for ignoring regulations want to have these outlaw radios (10 Meter) proliferate unabated. It matters that there IS an agency that, thankfully, DOES make such distinctions and draw lines as to what equipment may or may not be used for CB----OR be allowed to filch frequencies from legitimate, legally authorized licensees!!!! Sure, those that don't LIKE the idea of having their precious and ILLEGAL "10 Meter" (and junky) radios banned, criticized, and FINED are going to try to find every excuse to cry "UNFAIR", and "FOUL" and ask why REAL amateur radios don't suffer sanction from FCC. The REAL amateur radios AND their ability to be modified according to the RULES of the service into which they are usually put serve a legitimate and proven purpose! It is relatively RARE to find a ham radio that has been put into a use afoul of its actual purpose by a ham! It is more likely that a ham radio will be found misused by---------some outlaw CBer!!!

Perhaps, the answer is to be found in a MIRROR!!!!! For quite a few years, FCC was asleep. IF the export builders had fixed the so-called "10 Meter" junk so that once they had been modded to work on CB, they would NO LONGER work on 10 Meters, the FCC might not have awakened. They really didn't WANT to have to enforce CB radio!!! But NOOOOOOOOO! The CB outlaws wanted ALL them thar channels and all them thar "bands" that belonged to someone ELSE!!!!!!! So they not only went into the non-existant "freeband", they figured that the actual 10 Meter band was fair game as well. And being ignorant of any such thing as licensing, band plans, and agreements, they plopped their butts right smack dab onto the CW sub-band. After all, them beeps and blops were 'just noise' right? Being that the amateurs DO have a bit of pull via ARRL and many FCC engineers ARE hams anyway, the Feds woke UP and said, "Oh no, h--- you DON'T!" The result was a bunch of P----ed off hams AND an awakened FCC!!!!!!!!! AND a bunch of dealers getting their butts kicked via FINES, CB operators crying about the $10,000 fines they got!

I don't mean to be unkind, but like most hams, finding some unlicensed, ignorant clown ON the ham bands makes me FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!! They have ALL of the CB band to play free (mostly) from rules and tests; they are not welcome to come onto other turf! They have the privilege of doing the SAME things *I* did by taking the TESTS, and FOLLOWING the same rules I do!!!! So I don't like the outlaw stuff OR the illegal radios that make it possible for the rambos to show up on 10 Meters. If I offend, I am sorry. It's how I feel!!~!!


CWM