hi all,

someone correct me if i am wrong here (like you wouldnt LOL), but isnt there a bit of a double standard occurring in the descriptions of what radios are considered to be CB type transmitters and which ones are considered to be ARS type transmitters?

this is from the FCC website. these are their words:

On
May 13, 1996, the Commission's Office of Engineering and
Technology (``OET'') released a Public Notice ``to clarify the
Commission's Rules regarding equipment that is intended to
operate in various radio services in the high frequency radio
spectrum, including '10-Meter' Amateur Radio Service (ARS)
equipment.''9 The Notice stated that transmitters intended for
operation on non-amateur frequencies must be approved prior to
manufacture, importation or marketing. The Notice specifically
included ARS transceivers designed ``such that they can easily be
modified by the users to extend the operating frequency range
into the frequency bands'' of the CB and other non-amateur radio
services among those devices subject to equipment authorization
procedures. The Notice also stated that the Commission considers
these transceivers as intended to be operated on frequencies
where the use of type accepted equipment is required ``because of
the simplicity of modifying them to extend their operating
frequency range.''10 The Commission's Office of General Counsel
(``OGC'') later released a letter on the importation and
marketing of ARS transmitters, which clarified that such
transmitters that ``have a built-in capability to operate on CB
frequencies and can easily be altered to activate that
capability, such as by moving or removing a jumper plug or
cutting a single wire'' fall within the definition of ``CB
transmitter'' under Section 95.603(c) of the Rules and therefore
require certification prior to marketing or importation.11



now,just about every 160-10 meter ham transceiver made in the last 20 years (even longer im sure) is VERY easily modified to work on CB and other illegal frequencies.

most are as easy as clipping a wire, cutting a diode or two, and some even have a switch provided for the purpose.

by the FCC's own wording; dont these radios fall into the category of a radio that needs to be type certified by the FCC?

yes, i realize that i am picking things apart, somewhat intentionally misunderstanding what was intended by their statements, but this isnt church; its politics, and in politics; its all about how the law is worded.
thats how our country works.

so, maybe im not going to petition the FCC to re-word this statement, as i am not a lawyer, and would probably have my a$$ immediately handed to me by someone that knows all the ins and outs of it.

BUT!

maybe i could go to ebay, and convince them to stop selling ham transceivers because they are easily modded to be high powered CB radios.

would that make me any different than "electrician1969" and the rest of the hams that are flexing their radio muscles on ebay?


these are just questions folks.
if they make you angry, just turn the knob on the left until it goes click.
hmmmmm........
LC

__________________
well yeah, but what's really going on?

I think my Icom is "converted" by clipping one diode.

No more difficult than doing it to an export.

The thing in a amatuer radio that helps, it can be used in MARS/CAP service.

__________________

maybe.

most exports can get the CAP freqs. when modified.
hmmmm.....
LC

__________________
well yeah, but what's really going on?

It goes beyond what constitutes and distinguishes between CB transmitters and amateur. Specifically, Part 95 states that one must use ONLY a 4-watt-40 channel CB radio that has a certification number and sticker. Each channel is pre-set at the factory to SPECIFIC frequencies. The radios must NOT be modified in any way. The onslaught of the so-called "10 Meter 'amateur'" radio with "bands" of channels and quick modification made FCC realize that revisions in the rules had to be made.
So they took care of any ambiguity by listing EACH radio that they did not want sold in the US on a list prohibiting their sale. By the legal definition, if anything, it is the "bands" of channels that allows FCC to say NO to the "export" radios in country. Why? Because it does NOT take 6 bands of "channels" to cover the CB band. There are 40, specifically set at the factory.

By the same token, various manufacturers also use the SAME chassis for commercial VHF and UHF FM radios, permitting a variety of users to purchase radios that are certified for use in their own service. This cuts down on cost. If radio users had to purchase different and separate radio chassis rather than being able to use basically the same one, it could be prohibitively expensive. Furthermore, the professional radio users AND the licensed amateurs do not create the problems that the CB operators do because they don't have this penchant for being the rebel, or violating the law. IOW, they generally have more to lose than do the CB guys. It is only the 11 Meter types that seem to create the most headaches with splattering amplifiers, illegal radios, and so-called "extra" channels that they don't legally have any right to. So that's why FCC pays more attention to that, and is generally less lenient towards the equipment.

Let's also clear up something. The "CAP" thing. Without giving up too much info, FCC has NO jurisdiction over CAP. And their frequencies are not limited to that area below CB. Their equipment is required to be compliant with something called NTIA (National Telecommunications & Information Authority). They are US Air Force and range over a wide area of HF. Getting on THEIR frequencies is a NO NO, and it will cause an interloper not only to get FCC after him, but also USAF Frequency Management as well. The CAP/USAF folks are NOT amused at finding an interloper on their frequencies because their operations are NOT a "game" or a "toy". It often involves support for air search operations or rescue (Look up the search for Steve Fossett who went mysteriously missing last year). On 9/11, the military was the only planes allowed to fly.....AND Civil Air Patrol.
They took the air survey photos of the World Trade Center. Messing with THEIR communications will get the same result as putting in a marine radio and using it for a CB. The Coast Guard gets REALLY grumpy about that!

CWM

If you are going to spout all this "CW" at least get the watts right, 4 watt carrier at 100% modulation is legal! I still see HAMs using the 5 watt input = 3.2 watts RF out. Its 7 watts input and 4 watts out now, O.F. ;0

__________________
CDX-112

HF transceivers need to be modifiable for legitimate use in other communications services beyond basic amateur coverage. MARS/SHARES are examples. Also in the example of both of my rigs, neither one was around when 60m was opened, so they had to be modified for that.

What they are going for are the 'export' radios that are not so cleverly designed to work free band and are sold at a dime a dozen price as so called 10m radios. Their specs alone show they aren't suitable as an amateur device, so trying to define this is a crazy waste of time...but here they go.

Specifically, Part 95 states that one must use ONLY a 4-watt-40 channel CB radio that has a certification number and sticker. (quote)
************************************************** ******

See above. Nothing technically wrong with what I said. After all, if the radio is not monkeyed with a ala Mr. Joe's CB Parlor and Export Emporium, it's gonna be doing 4 watts. WHERE did I say anything about "5" watts?



CWM

The question in the first post concerned why those older radios could be easily converted for use on the CB band, and were legal. The answer is that they were type accepted by the FCC, and their primary use was in the amateur bands.
- 'Doc

The original question is what makes an HF radio (from kenwood, icom, yaesu etc) any less or more of a "CB transmitter" than a 10 meter radio made by ranger, galaxy, cobra etc.

CW-morse has conviently bypassed the thread starting question.

__________________
"Y'all mind hanging back? You're jamming my frequencies" -- Tangina in Poltergeist

And the answer is type acceptance. Simple.
- 'Doc

What isn't so simple is the procedure that has to be followed to get that type acceptance...not cheap either.