QRZ gets a Wakeup Call

Sonwatcher · #1 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 09:29 PM

I have contended many times in discussion that Ham sites that sell Exports are breaking the FCC rules that state no person is allowed to offer for sale in the US. The usual response was that is only meant for dealers. Well QRZ just found out otherwise by receiving a letter from the FCC. The owner of QRZ posted the letter and his thoughts. Here is a portion-

Quote:

Recently, a QRZ member notified us that we were permitting the sale of "Banned Radios" in the QRZ Online Swapmeet. The list of radios, published by the FCC, is well known and includes some well known models such as the RCI 2970 since it can be easily be modified to operate on the CB band by so-called Freebanders.

The QRZ editorial staff discussed the issue and we came to the conclusion that while the FCC does (and rightly, should) prohibit the importation, sale, and marketing of these radios (previously available in truck stops), we concluded that the rule was obviously aimed at dealers, importers, and in general, commercial interests. Upon reaching this decision, we informed the member that QRZ has no objection to private individuals trading and/or selling these radios among themselves on the website.

Upon hearing our response, the member then reported us to the FCC, or perhaps more accurately, "asked the FCC for their opinion". Here's what the FCC said in an email that I received today:

Fred

(John Doe) is correct in that you cannot market these devices on the internet, regardless if you are marketing them to amateurs or not. The devices cannot be marketed in the United States by any person. The RCI 2970 and the RCI 6300F150 can easily be modified to operate on the CB band. That is why the Commission has not allowed them to be certificated and that is why the FCC does not permit the "marketing of these devices by any person. See the attached Citation which explains our position. (we didn't get the attachment -fred)

I am going to forward the information down to the Spectrum Enforcement Division for further investigation and comment.

David Dombrowski

FCC Philadelphia Office

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=168457

mackmobile43 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonwatcher

I have contended many times in discussion that Ham sites that sell Exports are breaking the FCC rules that state no person is allowed to offer for sale in the US. The usual response was that is only meant for dealers. Well QRZ just found out otherwise by receiving a letter from the FCC. The owner of QRZ posted the letter and his thoughts. Here is a portion-

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=168457

It's only fair to post this link or the entire thread yet you still side for the FCC, I say everyone who cares to needs to read this entire thread at qrz.com and decide for themselves the opinions of all who post to this thread whether the majority of even the most staunches of ham ops agree that it can't be illegal for hams to own these radios but are not allowed to resell them.

There are lots of sites on the internet that condone much more damaging topics and activities yet are allowed to exist for the reasons of free speech but heaven forbid someone sell a radio that operates on legal ham frequencies.

Most every ham radio that is produced is easily converted for 11 meter operations yet are allowed to be sold legally. icon/kenwood/yeasu just to name the most popular.

Quote:

#13

Yesterday, 08:34 PM
W2JGA

QRZ Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA7BQ

The list of radios, published by the FCC, is well known and includes some well known models such as the RCI 2970 since it can be easily be modified to operate on the CB band by so-called Freebanders.

Might as well pull all the 706's from the market too. (insert other brands here)

706 is just as easy to modify for 11 meters as the RCI 2970 I'm sure.

__________________
Mike

Sonwatcher · #3 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 10:42 PM

Don't know where you got I side with the FCC. This rule has been discussed many times on this forum but you must have missed the discussion. Also if you read my post the url for the post at QRZ was included in my post. It is legal for an Amateur to posses these radios. It is legal for them to use these radios on the Amatuer bands. However as noted in discussion on the website that though legal to posses and use Hams are not allowed to sell them even to fellow Hams. This is where the confusion comes in play. And reading the discussion on QRZ mirrors the many discussions we have had on this forum on the same subject. This was the first I had heard that a Ham ,though legal to use, is not allowed to sell to a fellow Ham. Interesting.

loosecannon · #4 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 10:48 PM

mackmobile,

whatever you do, DO NOT mention to the hams that their FCC certificated transceivers are "easily modified to operate on the CB band."
and that you do not have to be a licensed ham to buy one.

they do not like to hear about this, and most certainly do not want to have a discussion about it. LOL

(to the very few hams out there without a sense of humor; that was supposed to be funny!)
LC

Sonwatcher · #5 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 10:55 PM

LC,
I have said before that though my 757GX may not show channels after conversion it still has from the factory a switch behind the face plate that automatically opens the entire 11 meter band. You don't even have to move a jumper or cut a wire.

mackmobile43 · #6 (**permalink**) 07-11-2008, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonwatcher

Don't know where you got I side with the FCC. This rule has been discussed many times on this forum but you must have missed the discussion. Also if you read my post the url for the post at QRZ was included in my post. It is legal for an Amateur to posses these radios. It is legal for them to use these radios on the Amatuer bands. However as noted in discussion on the website that though legal to posses and use Hams are not allowed to sell them even to fellow Hams. This is where the confusion comes in play. And reading the discussion on QRZ mirrors the many discussions we have had on this forum on the same subject. This was the first I had heard that a Ham ,though legal to use, is not allowed to sell to a fellow Ham. Interesting.

Export radios are illegal for importation and are therefore contraband and it is illegal to possess contraband and the sale of these is another matter all together.

As I've said before just because you have a license to operate radios in a certain frequency does not make you above the law when it comes to owning a certain radio that is illegal for all to possess.

W5LZ · #7 (**permalink**) 07-11-2008, 07:07 AM

I have no idea what Mr. Dombrowski's, of the FCC Philadelphia Office, job is, but I think the FCC's legal department's decision ought to be interesting. I think it will involve something about type acceptance for a particular service, and the use of equipment (home brewed/modified or not) from one service in another. I also think that it will boil down to an individual's use of that equipment in a legal manner.
I have a feeling that 'QRZ' will limit the sale of these non-type accepted radios, won't matter who is selling them. That just makes sense! If you were the owner of 'QRZ' and there was the possibility that you would be shut down for doing something (not doing something), wouldn't you quit doing whatever that 'something' was?
How do you get around that legal thingy? Change it, don't just break it, that always means problems. Ought'a be interesting.
- 'Doc

QRN · #8 (**permalink**) 07-11-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loosecannon

mackmobile,

whatever you do, DO NOT mention to the hams that their FCC certificated transceivers are "easily modified to operate on the CB band."
and that you do not have to be a licensed ham to buy one.

they do not like to hear about this, and most certainly do not want to have a discussion about it. LOL

(to the very few hams out there without a sense of humor; that was supposed to be funny!)
LC

The big differance is what the manufacturer INTENDED the radio to do. The ham rigs enable not just 11m but everything in order to cover MARS freqs etc.Some hams build their own transverters and need out of band operation to drive them to allow operation on a legal freq. Radios like the 2950 actually display CB channels on the display and that shows INTENT by the manufacturer that the radio operate on CB channels.As for the radios with a simple 40 channel display and a "band" switch,well no legit ham radio ever needs a "band" switch to cover just a single band.As for the post on QRZ correct me if I am wrong but was it not worded to say something to the effect about it being illegal to use the internet to offer the radios for sale? Would this not make it LEGAL to sell direct to someone without using the internet to make an offer. IOW if I sold it to my buddy down the street who is a ham it would be legal as long I as I did not offer it for sale over the internet.

doctor · #9 (**permalink**) 07-11-2008, 08:25 AM

Ridiculous, there are hundreds of ads on the web advertising these radios, so if the FCC will stop the advertising then shutdown Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom etc, and watch the big tax bucks dwindle, again the mentality of government control

DOCTOR/795

SR385 · #10 (**permalink**) 07-11-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonwatcher

LC,
I have said before that though my 757GX may not show channels after conversion it still has from the factory a switch behind the face plate that automatically opens the entire 11 meter band. You don't even have to move a jumper or cut a wire.

Mind, it isn't just 11m and it doesn't have firmware to 'channelize' and display the 40 channels like the 'export' radios do.

That switch is for needed coverage for use for MARS/SHARES/CAP and now for 60m that every ham can use. Every ham has to modify their rig if it is older than what...just a few years or they won't have complete band coverage.

Keep in mind, HF rigs aren't simply a hobby radio, the radio service charter is there for use in disasters. Equipment for that sort of use should be made to be frequency agile.

I hate these threads. 11m use is illegal, plain and simple. When I was an 11m op, I had no delusions about it and no expectations that people should just forgive me for it or a belief that I had some sort of squatter's rights. It's just not logical. I knew what I was doing and accepted it for what it was...illegal activity.

If you want to run illegally on 11m, go ahead that is your choice, but stop whining about it, it is the law, plain and simple.

I also can't understand the hams who are completely obsessed with hunting down every single ad for 11m equipment and harassing the content providers that host the ads. I don't agree with them either, if they would put down the phone and keyboard, we might actually have more people on the air to talk to.

The whole thing is ridiculous.