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1 wire dual polarized quad

johnny9

Active Member
Dec 3, 2013
376
41
38
bikini state
well its been a while not getting to use the computer but heres what i have going..the past yr i have learned a lot and addicted to to antennas :)
my homemade 2 element quad kicks butt in every way..it has a 1972 astroplane coming out the center of it at 65 ft also..it is diamond shaped and fed at the botttom tip for horizontal.
i have been wanting vertical also since i have a 4 position switch..the astro plane talks the talk but still want to experiance true vertical from the quad for the first time..since the flat side is really sweet..

so,i added another wire beside the driven wire 3 inches apart....no workie for me,spent all day trying to change the swr,s and didnt work...a tuner may have worked but they def interfiered with each other.

not being a quiter i cranked down the tower again yesterday to add vertical to the same single wire im talking on now to see what happened.. heres a link to what ive done..
scroll down for diagram http://www.homingin.com/dualfeed.html
i thought the single wire split in the corner was awesome that it cancled out the broken part and still worked so well so i tryed it. :--)
holy batman droppings,,the quad is on the ground with reflector 1 ft from the dirt,pointing straingt up to the heavens and i can hear better on vertical then ever experianced..talked to 101 andy in barbadoes for a check with it on the ground from central florida,,sweet! then the flat side :) sweeter!he was on the flat and the vertical was picking him up as good as the flat side if not better..
so played with it yesterday afternoon listening to the world still as usuall with the 3 antennas on the ground..
i used 7ft 6 inches of rg11 75 ohm for matching stub on the flat side with great sucsess for long time so used the same for the vertical..and have 2 runs of 130 ft rg8 coax.
the wires are made for ch 40...and my swr,s are
vertical ch 1= 2.0 ch 40 =-2.7
horizontal ch 1 =3.9 ch40 =3.5
so heres what im trying to learn;; since swrs are lower on ch1 vertical but wire made for ch 40 does this mean i can shorten that wire to better tune the swr for vertical..?
even if i cant get the swr,s down and a antenna tuner could work for me then thats what i will do when funds allow..as the antenna is blowing my mind how great is is,just need to figure out how to get the swr,s down to at least 1.5 or better would be nice,,sorry so long,knowledge takes time "-) johnn9
 

did i mention all the swr checks were with antenna are on the ground with quad aimed to the sky and reflector 1 ft or so off the ground.
listening to 002,002,002,002 in scottland a few minutes ago with quad on the ground,,,and 876 yorkshire uk just boomed in 5-7...QUADS are hard to beat :) listening to dx as if my antenna is 60 ft up,,,not a lot of difference,just quiter..644 bob,ireland,uk,and austrailia still hittting the beam as i type...
I MUST GET THESE SWR,S GOOD FOR WHAT IVE DONE,,its blowing my mind listening this am,,better than ever with this wire cut and added vertical,and horizontal with turn of a switch....dam this seems like i good thing,hope im not dreaming :)
9am and 6 countrys booming in the quads"grounded"ears...layin on the ground..amazed!
 
You should have looked for info on the old Hygain two element quad. It did use two driver elements spaced about 4-5 inches apart with one for vert. and the other for horz. and it did work really well with no (or very minimal) interaction. Back in high school my buddy bought one and I helped him install it. It had an air-wound choke balun on each feedline wound on a plastic form that came with the antenna.
 
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i didnt try a balun or anything when they were 3 inches apart..but it is a 10 minute job to install the wire back up there and hook it up...i made it in a kit kinda,,i took it outside with wire and attachments already installed and installs in minutes with the matching stub..
ck i still feel the thing i tried,and thing you mentioned will work also,i just dont have as much knowledge as most about this stuff..as you guys already no :).. big thanks to my ham neighbor..and this site f0r my reading pleasures!

i feel my quad is better than the cubex..mine was made by me and fully welded and fully adjustable and can install many elements fast if wanted :) did i mention mine is lighter than any quad on the market :) just homemade..cubix is a nice antenny tho,
i will download pics later..

my neighbor will loan me an antenna tuner..i guess if all else fails the tuner should help .i will just have to learn to use it :)
i may try the coax wound around a 3 inch plastic pipe choke if i cant get this working satisfactory
 
i didnt try a balun or anything when they were 3 inches apart..but it is a 10 minute job to install the wire back up there and hook it up...i made it in a kit kinda,,i took it outside with wire and attachments already installed and installs in minutes with the matching stub..
ck i still feel the thing i tried,and thing you mentioned will work also,i just dont have as much knowledge as most about this stuff..as you guys already no :).. big thanks to my ham neighbor..and this site f0r my reading pleasures!

A balun won't really change the tuning or anything but is used to provide a balanced feed to preserve the pattern.


i feel my quad is better than the cubex..mine was made by me and fully welded and fully adjustable and can install many elements fast if wanted :) did i mention mine is lighter than any quad on the market :) just homemade..cubix is a nice antenny tho,
i will download pics later..

Just remember in almost ALL situations lighter means weaker. Sometimes heavy is better. I built a six element 6m yagi out of the remains of a Wilson Shooting Star and used the larger sized tubing. It is about twice the weight as the Cushcraft five element even with the same boom length due to this as well as the larger diameter boom. The Cushcraft will be on the ground LONG before mine is after an ice storm.

my neighbor will loan me an antenna tuner..i guess if all else fails the tuner should help .i will just have to learn to use it :)
i may try the coax wound around a 3 inch plastic pipe choke if i cant get this working satisfactory


The coil form was 3-4 inches LONG not diameter BTW.
 
Couple of points.I thought VF of RG 11 is .66 making your 75 ohm section to long. Confirm the VF of the cable you are using.
Yes at first glance the length appears to long.( but could be the 75 ohm section is to long)
Resonance will move a little higher when you raise the antenna.
Don't put a s on swr it's SWR or VSWR.
 
Just checked . you MUST fit a choke on both feed points of that design or it wont work.Without a choke the unused coax becomes part of the antenna bigtime.
QUOTE
"Whoa! Breaking the loop and adding a 50-ohm load at a current minimum will not affect it, but adding an unbalanced feedline certainly will. The braid of the coax will become part of the antenna. As another EZNEC exercise, hang a 6-foot wire (representing the coax shield) at a current null point in your favorite quad DE and watch the pattern change for the worse.

Fortunately, current flow on the outside of the coax can be choked off to restore the current minimum. A balanced-to-unbalanced transformer (balun) will do it. RF current will be confined to the coax inner conductor and the inside of the shield, and will remain near zero for cross-polarized signals. "


dualfeed.gif
 
Just checked . you MUST fit a choke on both feed points of that design or it wont work.Without a choke the unused coax becomes part of the antenna bigtime.
QUOTE
"Whoa! Breaking the loop and adding a 50-ohm load at a current minimum will not affect it, but adding an unbalanced feedline certainly will. The braid of the coax will become part of the antenna. As another EZNEC exercise, hang a 6-foot wire (representing the coax shield) at a current null point in your favorite quad DE and watch the pattern change for the worse.

Fortunately, current flow on the outside of the coax can be choked off to restore the current minimum. A balanced-to-unbalanced transformer (balun) will do it. RF current will be confined to the coax inner conductor and the inside of the shield, and will remain near zero for cross-polarized signals. "


dualfeed.gif
thanks for all the replies,and corrections on my southern slang lol..
so does this "choke" go where the rg8 ends and the 75 ohm begins?
im lost on this stuff really but wont give up on the split wire as it recieves great!
the rg11 75ohm matching stub is exactly 7ft 6 inches of cable and is dx engineering brand with heavy solid center conductor..
with tower up now the vswr is 2.9 on vert and 2.4 on the flat side..i wont be talking but have said a few words to andy in barbadoes and he says doing great job as i did before with just the flat side...
if a "choke" or something wont work i will go back to a flat side beam and build another quad and stack it on top of this one and make it vertical
 
Fit chokes as close as you can to the feed point.Without it your whole unused coax becomes part of the radiator detuning your antenna.Sorry about the swrs thing no offence meant .
 

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