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4 pill question

Discussion in 'Amplifiers' started by Se7en, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    why is it all these people who own a ts500v are seeing 700w pep.....
    i drove mine one time with 75w to only see a stronger 500w pep... thats it i tried hitting it with 125w still with only seeing 500w maybe a little more but not enough to mention.
    are these people just redonkulis or have special radios? :)

    Copper Talk: Texas star 500v


     
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  2. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    iv done some research and it looks like a 100w dk swinging to 500w is not good. so i need to bring my dk on the amp to: 250ish watts swing to 500w? isnt that a 1:2 ratio?

    using math:
    1:4 ratio: 500 Divided by 4 = 125.0w
    1:3 ratio: 500 Divided by 3 = 166.6w
    1:2 ratio: 500 Divided by 2 = 250.0w

    out of those which is best for am dx? i was told a 1:2 thru 1:3 will cut the lips right off.....
    i'm currently using the 1:4 ratio.

    can someone back me up on this or if im wrong teach me....:)
     
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  3. deadkeying %25 of what the amp will cleanly swing is optimal for modulation clarity and strength . my 500v did 500 watts pep on a astatic 700 meter with 16-17 watts pep going into it . people seeing 700 watts are either over driving the amp or have very happy meters . not at all suggesting the 700 is a super accurate power meter , but its good enough for my needs .
     
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  4. AudioShockwav

    AudioShockwav Extraterrestrial Admin Staff Member

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    700 pep.
    I do not have the exact e mail from the shop that set my 500 up any more, but to the best of my memory, 720 watts on a bird 43-P ( peak reading kit) into a dummy load on the bench, with a solid 14 volt power supply.
    The Power leads have been upgraded to 8 gauge and the fuse holders bypassed to prevent any voltage drop.
    And I am sure that was the limit without driving the amp into the twilight zone because they where a reputable shop that did not like seeing garbage out of anything.

    I might be off a bit, but there is another member that got his 500 at the same time from the same shop, and I will ask him this afternoon.
    You said before you were using a Radio Shack meter that is not peak reading, I know it has a switch that says pep but it is not really pep........
    if you are seeing 500 watts on a avg reading meter, it is fine.
    I am sure you know that 125 in it too much, and you took a risk and got lucky, it very well could have become a paperweight.
    2sc2879`s are getting expensive.
    As you start pushing things, then you must be careful with reflect in your antennas system.....as limits are reached, every one of you ducks must be in a row or you risk damage.
    500 watts will really talk about anywhere you want if the band is open and another 200 watts will make little difference, really, ask these guys here on the forum, they will tell you.
    If you really really need more than that I suggest you sell the amp you have, and add some more to it and buy a larger amp, or if you are using it as a base amp, spend some coins on a better antennas system.
    You are already at the point where for the dollars spent, you will see better return on gain in the antenna system.
    the added benefit of a better antenna system is it allows you to hear better as well.
    Using a larger amp requires more current, and a host of other things you need to think about.
    And if you need to see the meter move that much ( and it is on a base set-up) you should forget the solid state stuff and find a tube that will do what you want.
    I mean this in the best way.....stop watching the watt meter.... I am not trying to be a butt head at all.
    Set up the amp, make sure your antenna is working properly, and take the watt meter out of line....
    One good thing about the DX 500V is it has a meter on the front, (yes it is not a watt meter, it only shows relative power)once you have the system running fairly well, the meter on the front of the amp can tell you if something is amiss.
    You will get used to seeing the amp key at a certain spot, and swing about the same all the time, if you notice the on board meter doing something goofy
    then you need to break out the SWR/power meter and check to see what it is.
    Don`t let your watt meter drive you to blowing up a good amp
    It is never a good idea to run any equipment to it`s limit.


    73
    Jeff

    On Edit, this is SSB mode
     
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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  5. AudioShockwav

    AudioShockwav Extraterrestrial Admin Staff Member

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    Another thing to think about , and you have already proved it with your own testing is, that increasing your input, did not increase you output.
    You have reached the end of the Gain curve of the Amp.....


    73
    Jeff
     
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  6. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the wonderful advice, audio.

    i was told about ratios. and the way mine is setup is with swing swing swing. which means someone with less swing more dead key same amp same output will key over me unless i can limit the swing without loosing audio or modulation.

    so in my terms i was thinking ratio as to 1:2 about 250w dk and swing to 500w would benefit me more, than doing a 100w dk and swing to 500w thats 400w of modulation. i rarely use this amp for ssb no reason to run an amp on sideband IMO.

    were probably going to have a small key down and a few fellas run 4 pills. all with different results, iv figured out my reflect and was able to reduce it almost to 0.1%. others have a swr while keying up on the amp of 4.0 and higher that is lots of loss.... yet they can key up on me ....if i'm wrong here please inform me.
     
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  7. Robb

    Robb Yup

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    The Texas Star amps are AB biased, so they will work well on SSB - BTW. The thing you have to watch out for - with either AM or SSB - is not to over-drive the input of the amp. When driving the amp with suggested factory power levels; then AB biasing will be effective. It can work very well on SSB and on AM so long as you aren't over-driving it, or run a radio into it that has a clipped AM modulation limiter.

    It has the potential to run fairly clean.
    That responsibility is yours . . .
     
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  8. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    oh i know this amp works great on sideband. but, i didn't buy the amp for lots of SSB use mainly AM talk. no limiters cut in my radios......as i know what happens when a radio has no limiter.(y)
     
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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  9. AudioShockwav

    AudioShockwav Extraterrestrial Admin Staff Member

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    Key downs are a totally different ball game.
    You need the best antenna system you can put together.
    You need a good ground plane under that antenna system
    You need to keep loss as low as possible.
    You need a Comp style amp that you can Volt the shit out of.
    You need a way to feed that 18 or 19 or 20 volts to that comp amp with out voltage drop.
    You need a big fire extinguisher on hand if something goes wrong.



    It is kinda like NHRA Top fuel class
    If you plan on running that hard, you got to have spare piston`s on hand and rebuild the motor after every event.

    73
    Jeff
     
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  10. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    were not running no competition suburban keydown just a little get together. lol
    check your pm's boss.
     
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  11. AudioShockwav

    AudioShockwav Extraterrestrial Admin Staff Member

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    RE output on the 500 V
    I got a hold of the other gentleman that got the same amp about the same time I did, he could not remember the exact number either, he thinks it was 620 watts ....I have an e-mail for one of the guys that used to work at the shop, so I will contact him and try to get a definite number for you, but I still think the test you did shows it will produce no more, do to the fact that as you increased drive, output did not go up.....unless it is starving for current....that is the final call.
    When he writes back, I will let you know.

    73
    Jeff
     
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  12. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    thanks.
     
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  13. even if you got 1000 watts out of a 4 pill it'll be very rare that you make a contact that you couldn't make with 500 watts .
    but at 500 watts your signal is cleaner and will be much much less likely to interfere with other electronics .
    the down side is you can only tx on one channel at a time :headbang :LOL:
     
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  14. TonyV225

    TonyV225 Supporting Member

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    LMA:LOL:!!! Yeah Im thinking thats exactly what some people think is the definition of a (BROADBANDED AMPLIFIER) and thats how you makesure you are getting out worldwide!! :headbang
     
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  15. Se7en

    Se7en Well-Known Member

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    lol @ broad banded antenna,,,,

    i think the starting of this thread was incorrectly typed up. im not wanting this amp to do more than 500w...... its 4 2879s that's as good as it gets. but SURE I CAN GET IT TO DO 800w \.....BUT there is a catch to it..... i BETTER HAVE SOME MATCHED 2879's in my pocket.
    im more stuck on this ratio thing........:glare:
     
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