1. You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.

CB Milage Limit

Discussion in 'FCC Activity' started by Sonwatcher, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Sonwatcher

    Sonwatcher
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    14
    Here is a question. I am running a perfectly legal radio with NO attachments just my 4 watts and am on SSB hearing DX come in. I hear someone from Texas. He is using a legal radio. By means of mother nature we hear each other. I am sending a legal wattage and so is he. We are not causing any interference to other Freq. because we are using a clean legal set-up. What would be the harm of allowing a milage increase for someone to say "howdy" to the man in Texas if we are using FCC approved equiptment ? Our signals are already there being heard because of the atmosphere.


     

  2. Happy_Hamer

    Happy_Hamer
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Messages:
    5,045
    Likes Received:
    135
    Peddler, I accidently moved your reply, sorry.

    Sonwatcher, the 155 mile rule is kinda odd if you ask me. Follow along,,,,,,,,,

    Fred 434 is on his all stock FCC type accepted Cobra 148 Sound Tracker and on channel 38 LSB. He makes a casual call for anyone listening,,,,,,,,,

    George 237 returns to his call and says, I am mobile on my all stock FCC type accepted Galaxy DX959 ...... he is hitting you full scale on the meter :D

    Then you hear Bob 659 break in with his stock FCC type accepted TEXAS RANGER 696F also hitting you full scale :D

    Wow all these guys must be near each other since they are all getting a full scale reading on each other.

    Well after about 10 minutes all three sign off,,,,,,,

    George 237 signs from Dallas
    Bob 659 signs from Portland (hes really in Dallas just dont want anyone coming to his house)
    Fred 434 signs from Boston

    Wait! they were all out of the 155 mile rule? I think? wait, does the FCC Require you to identify your location while talking on the CB? Can you verify location from the identity of ANYONE on a CB from just their handle or call number?

    NO, that is why the 155 mile rule makes no sense, the mileage cannot be verified, its a silly rule. IMHO
     
  3. Peddler

    Peddler
    Expand Collapse
    SWR (sandwich with rum) Expert

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    9
    Hmmmmm I may need to move your membership.
     
  4. C W Morse

    C W Morse
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    5
    Limit

    Not at ALL trying to argue or make a fuss, but there is also no rules that says that you HAVE to answer DX stations, either. Back in the day when people were more inclined to obey Federal laws (we were a bit more skeered of FCC then). While, depending one's point of view, the regulations are perhaps flawed, the success or failure of a regulation depends somewhat on the intregrity of the regulated (users). In the 60's, we didn't TRY to talk to distant stations (skeered to!), and if we did discover that we were talking to DX stations, we'd say something like, "Sorry, but I didn't realize you were beyond the "limit": I can't talk to you, this is KCI 3626 clear".
    And we'd sign off, or go back to talking to the locals that we KNEW in the area. I know that sounds trite, but it is what we did. Lots has changed since then. However, from a legal standpoint, the rule still prohibits "skip" talking (if someone is on
    the air going "Break,skipland, this here's WaggyDawg in Central, Nawth "C'lina, we tryin'", he is obviously trying to work DX). That is illegal as we know. But if you happen to hear someone signing in Dallas, TX and you're in NC, obviously that is against the law to hail him. Just because you HEAR him, doesn't mean you have to TALK to him. A strictly legal CBer *could* ignore the DX, right? :)

    73

    CWM
     
  5. CDX197

    CDX197
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    0
    milage rule? I dont like talking to someone that is less than 200 miles away from me. :LOL: Never heard of that rule and dont attend to follow it either. ;)
     
  6. Sonwatcher

    Sonwatcher
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    14
    Okay, let's try this again..............


    "What would be the harm of allowing (by way of law change) a milage increase for someone to say "howdy" to the man in Texas if we are using FCC approved equipment ? Our signals are already there being heard because of the atmosphere."
     
  7. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt
    Expand Collapse
    Professional Amateur
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    14,178
    Likes Received:
    5,499
    I always thought the 155 mile limit was foolish but I can see why it was put in place considering the ORIGINAL purpose of CB.Because it was meant as a short range service to augment business or personal users there was no need or desire to communicate over 155 miles.Nowadays someone would have to be out of their mind to use CB for business (not counting truckers) when VHF or cell phones are so cheap and much more practical and private.Yes,it has turned into a hobby regardless of who says what about the fact it was never meant as such and the 155 mile limit should be stricken from the books to reflect that.No harm can come from that,I mean after all what differance would it make? How many people don't DX solely because of the rule anyway?
     
  8. yama junk owna

    yama junk owna
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    0
    Come on guys this back in the 60's people didn't do this is completely bogus. People have ran more power and talked dx from day 1, how many swaped the tx and rx crystals in their Johnson white face so they could have more freqs? how many ham radios were used as cb's in the 50's? This kind of stuff has went on ever since cb was founded, like it or not it has became a hobby over the years and the fcc don't worry about it, so why do a few ticket holders make such a fuss and seem to know an awful lot about what goes on 11 meters, you would think they would be to busy working all of those plethora of freqs we are always hearing about. The 155 mile rule is silly because how could it be enforced even if they wanted to, cause when you talk to someone they may be accross town or accross the nation you have no way of knowing!
     
  9. C W Morse

    C W Morse
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    5
    We tryin'

    Most of us DIDN'T talk "skip" in the 60s--at least the guys around here locally. They (me included) were afraid of the guys with the white vans!


    What's the harm in driving your car at 100 MPH on the interstate? "You" could say that this is *my* hobby. What's the harm in drinking yourself into oblivion? You could say it's "my" hobby! What's the harm in making meth? Hobby?
    Depends on your point of view! To those who see no harm in these things, it's no big deal. So where's the harm in "hobby" use of CB, no matter what it has become? The difference is your own perception of what is harmful and what is not. These perceptions are based on personal preference, awareness, moral opinion of the law, and one's training in the particular hobby he wishes to promote. Minus certain experience and training in RF matters, one simply cannot see how his talking from NC to Texas could possible hurt anything. It does seem like a trivial thing, right? If working "skip" had been OK, or was OK now, the petition of a few years ago would've been approved to abolish limits on talking distances beyond 155 miles on CB. No question, it might be OK for those who DO realize the impact of others and have the experience to achieve
    lots of hobby "mileage" from CB skip-talking. But what if you open up this as a hobby to THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of people who are merely appliance operators and have NO idea of what impact such operation would create? It would snowball from something harmless to an even WORSE paralysis than CB experiences now! Then, in order to get over the racket, ever bigger linears are put on the air, making more noise, and more linears, then more noise, then more linears............... Then people say, "well, the H... with FCC, I'm gonna talk on them extra channels cause I got my rights". More interference both inside and OUTSIDE CB. More paralysis. Where would it end? Isn't THAT what is happening in and around CB NOW?

    It isn't popular, but the facts are (and I didn't make 'em up), it has been determined and codified into US law that such is not the best interests of the country.

    1. CB is in the Land Mobile Services. It is designed to be used as a cheap, LOCAL, specific radio. It is not a "hobby" as determined by US law. (again, I ain't the one to fuss with about it--someone ELSE made the law, I'm just discussing it.) It is basically, too, to be used by an UN-trained public in that he has a radio with limited power and 40 specific channels and is also strictly limited by regulations as to what he can and cannot do. We may not like it, but it is the law! The way to deal with it is to attempt to change said law thru legal means.
    Outright defiance and disobedience of the law creates resistance. However, because there ARE established and still valid reasons for NOT allowing "hobby" use of CB, it is not likely to be changed. Witness the attempt mentioned earlier to have this changed.

    2. The US Code, Title 47, pretty well determines and distinguishes what venues may be used as hobby, personal, business and commercial communications. And the distinctions are pretty narrow and clear. Thus, CB radios, like Motorola commercial units, have specific channels and set power levels (up to a certain limit) for a consumer market. CB, then, is part of the Land Mobile Radio Services.

    3. Hobby radio is pretty much codified and limited to Amateur Radio. It's rules and more relaxed equipment standards is much more accented towards the hobby user. This hobby user is much more likely to be able to deal with VFO operation, setting frequencies as opposed to channels, determining how much power is "enough", and how to minimize interference to other users. The determination of "who" qualifies" as a hobby operator is made by testing applicants to deem them "fit" to engage in hobby communications. Because he IS a hobbiest, he is more likely to be AWARE of what his operations will do to others, and will take more care. It ain't perfect, but it is the way it is. Tests can never fully assure that an operator is a responsible, caring radio-ist or an immature, self-centered egotist whose only thought WRT his radio is ME, MYSELF, and I.
    We have licensed hams that prove this with banal, immature, bawdy, and embarassing behavior. There are ways to deal with this, and the law does so with warnings, fines, and even jail.

    I don't post this to keep angst going, but I am simply trying to create thought as to why it is this way. It is very easy for us to cloud an issue with whys, wherefores, and I-don't-see-why-I-can't, etc. based on our own personal agendas and radio training--or lack of it. It is the very lack of insight (information) that drives this very deep wish to mold CB into what "WE" think it should be. *WE* want it to be a "hobby" whereby we can use it the same way we use a radio-controlled car from Radio Shack. As a consumer appliance. *WE* think CB is a hobby because *we* SAY so. *WE* don't want to take a test or conform to someone else's rules. Or *WE* want to be able to have drag races on public streets because *we* see no harm in it. *WE* see no harm in drinking a 5th at a party because *we* are good drivers. Perceptions all. But they may not be good perceptions. :)

    But here's the--and, yes, I know it chaps our hineys--narrow and legal reason which we, deepdown, know is the way it is.
    Even if we don't know WHY it is. CB radio is consumer-driven and has specific limits to minimize interference to others. It is not allowed to be a hobby. Amateur Radio is HOBBY and volunteer public-service driven radio whose rules and tests are designed to minimize interference, Both services arrive at the same objective via a different route! That objective is to prevent..............RIGHT! Interference!! Nothing is perfect nor can it ever be.

    And if one determines for himself that those rules don't apply to him, then he may pay for it with warnings, revocation, or $$$! Just like the fella speeding 100 MPH. :D

    73

    CWM
     
  10. Sonwatcher

    Sonwatcher
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ok CW, here's the question...... What would it harm if legal wattage is being used and the signals are there to be heard. I know the law, just wanting to find a reason why legally the milage cannot be changed using a legal radio. I know someone tried to get it changed but it was struck down after the input of an organization that claims to want no part of CB............the ARRL. I know there is the posibility of some adding power to break the rules but that is with everthing..........speed limit, even though cars are made and speedometers read much higher than the law allows, guns etc.
    Just wanting to know outside of the ARRL griping what would be wrong with the law change using a legal setup?
     
  11. AudioShockwav

    AudioShockwav
    Expand Collapse
    Extraterrestrial Admin
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    5,399
    Likes Received:
    1,094
    The thing is, if FCC drop`s the 155 mile limit, It will be the same as saying " yes it is ok to work DX"
    This would be the same as saying "CB is a Hobby service", and that is contary to what is on the books.
    What would it hurt?
    Nothing, But they have to keep up the image. They are fully aware that CB is used for DX work, all one has to do is turn on a radio (CB) and if the band is open, more than likely, you will hear CQ-DX. and it has been that way a long time.
    I have been doing radio for a long time...Have never been aware of anyone that was cited for a Over the 155 rule......Enforcment is much more sutied to the over power/out of band rules.
    If the FCC had it to all do over again, they would have NEVER had the band were it is (11 Meters) but they are now stuck with it and they have to do what they gotta do to keep it in check to some extent. This has to be a very crappy deal for them to try to enforce, how do you do it when there are signals comming from half way across the globe?
    You know it is really not all that bad, we have had guys around here that have been running "Big Radios" for 20+ years(yes including the old white face Johnsons that we...I meen they swapped the crystals in, Varmit`s, JB 12`s Kadets, Kris`s), 60 foot towers, lived there for 20 years, never had a visit from the FCC.
    Times have changed folks, when I got my first "Export Radio" ,back in the early 80`s, it was a hush hush deal, you had to know somebody, had to have been around a while. Buy the time you knew what a export was, you had allready re-rocked a few radios, opened a few "sliders", Had to do the math to figure out what crystal you needed, and understood were you were going with the radio.
    Now
    You get on the Interneck, goggle or metacrawler, plug in export CB, Bang, you get 15-20 hits, 24-32 Mhz, AM,FM,SSB,CW,
    Some guys that are buying these radios do not even know that SSB and AM on CH 38 is on the Same frequency, much less that the H band on HI is in the 29 Mhz range.
    I can see the conflict, And I do understand were Jerry comes from when he gets a very sour taste in his mouth when he hears a couple of guys on 28.305 talking AM, and telling everybody to F**K off when told that they should not be there.
    This more than anything else has built a fire under the Hams more that any 12 tube Phantom ever did.
    What is the answer?
    I don`t know.
    I do think they need to re-think the rules a bit for CB, yes it was never intended to be a hobby service, but it sure has grown into one.

    And in the same line of thought, there needs to be more respect for those rules, or it will never work.
    For now...this is what it is.......



    73
    Jeff
     
  12. Sonwatcher

    Sonwatcher
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    14
    Thanks Audio. That's what I'm getting at. Over a course of half a century it has evolved into a hobby. I just don't see if using an FCC aproved station will cause problems for distance within the 40 channels. I agree it is wrong for CBer's to be up in the Ham bands. I just think this is one law that can be changed if used within the legal wattage because CB is not used as first intended half a century ago.I agree it would be great if they could look at this one law without the ARRL being able to be so much of a heavy weight in the FCCs decision. If you look at the petition that was filed to change the law the FCC responded that it recognized that the change was something most CBers agreed with. Just wish they could see fit to really look into this. My original question was asking what harm would it be to change the law if staying within the 4 watt requirement.
     
  13. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt
    Expand Collapse
    Professional Amateur
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    14,178
    Likes Received:
    5,499
    I would like to see Jerry answer this one myself.Saying that it would lead to more linears and more out of band etc. is bogus.The "freeband" is literally crowded now when DX is rolling and linears will ALWAYS be a way of life on 11m.

    Again the question to be asked is "What harm will a LEGAL CB setup cause if allowed to communicate more than 155 miles?".It is done all the time now anyway.
     
  14. 2at124

    2at124
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: We tryin'

    Well if u think cb isnt a hoby and amature radio is yo wrong

    Ham radio conducts serivies such as , skywarn, ares, nation trafic netowrk, anr races

    cb conduted serviecs like react, and also can be use to realy 3rd party traffic aswell.

    your not allowed to conduct buisness on cb or ham radio.

    each has thier own power limits and band alocations.

    Hams have hamfest cber had cb jamborees

    I f they are both the same i dont see anything wrong with dx on 11m.

    so i didtn buy a license so i can use my cb . (I wasnt even a thought by my parents when cb required licence) so icant talk to dx how do i know he is dx if a guy is givin me 9s and says he is in alabama (im in nj) ho wdo i know he is thier he coul dbe palyin a joke on me lol

    yes i shoot dx will i stop no i wont. i'm gona conitue to drop my maul every chance i get!!!!


    will i get my general licene ??? nope .most hams i here a ignorant ( i do monitor them) beside have u listen to some parts of 80 meter s lately sounds like chanelle 19 in philadlphia .allu here is f this and f tthat .if i wana talk to someone like that i'll go to ch19.

    99.9% of ham are jealous of 11m freabander i hear them break up qso even when they r nowhere near 10meter. I was told 3 to 5 Khz i smore than enought if u run a clean staion .even thought run amature gear out of my base for that purpose Idotn go above 27.900.00 to be extra curtious.

    this is jus twah ti have noticed with ham And cb radio
     
  15. LoneWolf TN

    LoneWolf TN
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    0
    f

    CB - also, Bear Reports, Accident Reports, Deer Reports, Traffic Reports, Pedestrian Walking Reports and the list goes on. Oh ya, don't forget us cb'rs that run a wee bit 'o illegal power with them thar illegal radios and amps and talk NationWide... :LOL:

    LoneWolf TN
     

Share This Page