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EME on 11meters sked wanted

Discussion in 'CB QSO Planning & Schedules' started by Henry HPSD, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. Henry HPSD

    Henry HPSD Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys,

    There are a couple germans who did hear themselves a couple years ago with EME.
    But sofar i havnt heard about anyone making a 2way qso (eme) with different countries.

    Anyone willing to have a go at it..
    pse mail me!



    Kind regards,

    Henry 19SD348
    www.dx-antennas.com
     
    #1
  2. VA3ES

    VA3ES Old Buzzard

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    :eek: Considering that you will need at least 30 dBd gain minimum, what kind of monstrous array are you planning to use? :eek:
     
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  3. Wire Weasel

    Wire Weasel Senior Moment

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    And I don't think it's ever been done with voice. CW only.
     
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  4. Henry HPSD

    Henry HPSD Well-Known Member

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    Guys,

    Thanks for those answers.

    The gain minimum as stated is to my opinion overrated.
    Have you got an idea how much 30dB actually is? And what you would need to get it?
    Just to give a idea...thats at leasti in the direction of 50..60 times 6elements stacked.
    It is know that about 14dBi would cover it. (not talking jo-gunn gain lol).

    You can hear your own echo's using 5kw and boomlengths in the order of 20...30 meter
    (60..100feet).
    This although im certain one could do with less.

    So, if one is capable of hearing his own echo's, you could make a qso with someone with similair equipment.

    I wasnt talking about voice, but for starters JT65a for example.

    There are quite some ways to calculate if the "equipment" and "path" is good enough for a qso.
    Probarbly looking at a minium of a kw and boomlengths preferbly over 36 feet, but then again...who knows...with less.

    Kind regards,

    Henry 19SD348
    All about antennas
     
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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  5. Wire Weasel

    Wire Weasel Senior Moment

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    Well fine business then good buddy. Just as long as you understand what all is involved. And it needs to be on UHF or up too. Shucks.....all of us on here have such stations with well over 1KW and friggin' huge stacked arrays on azimuth rotors and we love that morris code too so name time and freq and we'll hook up.

    Here's a pic of my little 'tenna. Forget that other callsign somebody stuck on there, that's not right. Just my little starter setup. But ya gotta forget 11 meters now. Never happen.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur Staff Member

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    EME on 11m, even if it was possible and I am not convinced it is yet, would have to be done when there was no ionospheric charging whatsoever otherwise the signal would be reflected back to earth before it even left for the moon and anything left would be reflected back at the moon.
     
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  7. trucker

    trucker Active Member

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    Maybe at the very bottom of the solar minimum,but, as already said, it's very unlikely to happen on 11 meters. And you would need LOTS of power and high gain antenna arrays.
    (like those in the post above.......but MUCH larger) Get a Amateur radio license (tech is all you need for VHF-UHF) and give it a whirl , with a much smaller setup that is easier to get going. It can be a load of fun hearing your signal bounce off the moon.
    trucker
     
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  8. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur Staff Member

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    UHF or up?? There have been many successful contacts on 6m and 2m is, or at least was, the most popular band for EME. One thing to remember is that as the freq goes down the more power that is required. Conversely, 10-20 watts on 10 GHz into a medium sized dish of about 2 or 2.5 meters in diameter will yield great results.
     
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  9. Henry HPSD

    Henry HPSD Well-Known Member

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    Hello Guys!,

    As Captain Kilowatt stated: Uhf and up? just enter in google: 6meter (and) eme over 100.000 hits will come up.


    For those who have difficulties understanding it can be done:
    The proof is already there:
    ‪CB Funk - Erde MOND Erde , EME auf 11 Meter‬‏ - YouTube
    and:
    Funkbasis.de • Thema anzeigen - Der MOND hat geantwortet !!!!



    So, to the perhaps already positive thinking guys...wouldnt it be nice :))

    To the guys who migth be negative an idea..: instead of debating "never happen on 11 ..etc"..
    Can we actually gave it a real change? how about giving it a try?? we already have no..
    I know there are guys using over 20kw and really large beams on 11 that sounds more than sufficient to me.

    And yes i realise we would need a commen moon rise or set.
    We could make use of the ground gain if the moon is in the rigth elevation.

    This forum is to my knowledge a forum known worldwide.
    Im sure there must be somewhere someone willing to give it a try..who also understands it wont be happening with 10watts and a vertical.


    Kind regards,

    Henry 19SD348
     
    #9
  10. Superidgit

    Superidgit Active Member

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    I read somewhere that someone used just 3 miliwatts to go from austrailia to norway(?) was only using data though and I think dish antennas were being used.

    However, hypothetically speaking here, I have read that a good antenna and 100 watts using 2m and 6m this is possible. If a person could keep the angle from transmission point to moon to recieving point as close to 90 degrees as possible. Could the signal stand a chance then, with what is being proposed?
     
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  11. Wire Weasel

    Wire Weasel Senior Moment

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    Sure Henry, 6 and 2 are possible but the size and cost skyrockets. That is why UHF and up is most popular and practical as the antenna size and cost shrinks....but you still need a huge array as shown in the pics.

    EME simply isn't practical for the typical radio hobbyist and this is why only a very small handful of guys are into it.


    Here is your next challenge and it's easy because it's only involves a little typing.

    Go to qrz and post the exact same article and replace "11 meters" with "10meters" {same difference} and see what kind of kindly responses you get.
     
    #11
  12. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur Staff Member

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    Angle of transmission to the moon is irrelevant. The signal scatters and is reflected back at all angles due to the topography of the moon's surface. This is why ANY two stations that can see the moon at the same time are capable of making contact regardless of how far apart they are.
     
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  13. Mudfoot

    Mudfoot Supporting Member

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    No, leave it about 11 meters.

    I enjoy watching all them QRZ "experts" get all wound up.

    Some good reading.....

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
     
    #13
  14. Henry HPSD

    Henry HPSD Well-Known Member

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    @ captain kilowatt,

    The angle to the moon is relevant.
    Alhough the moon reflectes indeed and that any two stations which can see the moon can work each other...have you thougth about the groundgain wich comes in with transmitting.
    And about the elevation aspect? That migth be difficult for some of for instance about the moon variees with distance and angle to us. (eg closer moon ..shorter path...higher possibility).

    @wire weasel..."sure 6 and 2 is possible but costs sky rockets" ....
    Heck, i have heard eme on 6 using "only" a 6 elements.
    Futher along the line, im not intrested in the downsides (costs etc).
    I know EME isnt "easy" i construct antennas especially for Eme (low sky temperature).

    Did you know SM2CEW and RU1AA already made a 28Mhz 2way qso...

    Im not gonna put things on qrz.com...why should I?
    Whats the point ? It is already known to work.
    All i want is a 2way qso...not a debate about "wouldnt try it"..

    Im asking for someone to give it a go, not waiting for a increase of posts on this forum.

    So anyone willing to have a go at it ....pse mail

    Kind regards,

    Henry 19SD348
    All about antennas
     
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  15. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur Staff Member

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    I know about ground gain and apogee versus perigee and that in some cases the angle of elevation of the moon is relevant however my post above was in relation to Superidgit's post where he said:

    "If a person could keep the angle from transmission point to moon to recieving point as close to 90 degrees as possible. Could the signal stand a chance then, with what is being proposed?"

    When you look at the geometry of the distances involved, you would never be able to achieve a 90 degree angle with the moon at the apex of the angle formed by TX-moon-RX. That is the angle I was talking about, not elevation angle of transmission to take advantage of ground gain at moon rise or moon set.
     
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