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Marconi testing an original Starduster vs. Gain Master

Discussion in 'CB Antennas' started by Marconi, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    Here is my Starduster at 53' to the tip with 8' feet above the mounting bracket and a bit over 8' feet below vs. Gain Master at 64' feet to the tip...11' feet higher than the Starduster. However, the Starduster is actually 4' feet higher at the feed point.

    Gain Master vs. Starduster 031711 (2).jpg

    Gain Master vs. Starduster 031711.jpg

    Here is the bandwidth curve Antenna Work Sheet for the Starduster.

    View attachment Starduster Work Sheet 031711.pdf

    YouTube - Marconi comparing Gain Master 64' vs. Original Starduster 53' video #1

    YouTube - Marconi comparing Gain Master 64' vs. Original Starduster 53' video #2


     
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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  2. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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  3. gamegetter

    gamegetter Well-Known Member

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    :confused:of course that's about what you been seeing with your testing there-little difference between antennas. thanks for the info sir. i know it's alot of work setting up and taking antennas down. I done alot of it myself!
     
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  4. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    Gamegetter, it's like playing the piano, it's very difficult unless you practice, practice, and practice until it gets easy, but it's still a bit of work. Believe it or not the SD'r is very light, but more difficult to install than most. You have to be very careful not to bend it up, and it doesn't come with a mounting bracket. The AstroPlane is the same.

    Well, I've been saying "...I don't see the big differences most do" for some years now, but before I couldn't show what I see, just words.

    I believe the differences are in the soil and Earth conditions in my area which is very flat and highly conductive as Earth goes. I don't do anything special here, but I believe that most stations that see more differences in their experiences see that difference due to the very poor to extremely poor conductivity, where raised antennas that need less ground plane affects from a physical ground plane...excell over antennas that need a better ground, like the vertical 1/4 wave radiators.

    However, the big thing I believe is going on is how folks tend to evaluate their results. You can't just put up an antenna and get one or two radio or antenna checks up close and make a fair evaluation. I see my antenna signals change responsiveness right before my very eyes, and when you do everything right using only one mount, coax, and radio, albeit the best practice, you just can't see what I see testing side by side, and that hardly ever goes on in the vast majority of cases when guys compare one antenna to another weeks, months, or years apart, and sometimes even hours or minutes apart, to say nothing about our being able to come anywhere near able to control all the variables involved. There always has to be good reasons why some guys see 2-3 Sunit differences between different CB vertical models, while guys like my self, generally see about a 1/2 Sunit difference and even less.

    My Starduster, in the case above, only has a 4' foot height advantage over the Gain Master at a point where the coax connects to the antenna. In addition the SD's tip is 11' feet lower and 1/2 of the antenna is below the point where the coax connects. Both pushup poles are approximately 44' feet high, with the SD having a side pipe mounted above this point just 4' feet higher with a full 8' feet of the antenna hanging below this hub point which is the center of the antenna while the center of the GM is 11' feet higher than the 44' foot pushpole when they are extended all the way out. Both P/U's are currently about 2'-3' below their max extension just for my convince at this time. The images I posted earlier do not give a perfect perspective as usual, but one is pretty close.
     
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  5. gamegetter

    gamegetter Well-Known Member

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    ahh i see. by now you are probably playing mozart, bach and beethoven on your piano!!!

    with the differences in soil condition theory, you are saying that when others switch antennas from the 1/4 wave to a 1/2 or 5/8, the increase in performance is either a perception or possibly based on the fact that the new antenna being a different design may have a better counterpoise?
     
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  6. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    #6
  7. hotrod

    hotrod Well-Known Member

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    nice review there marconi. one thing i did notice is when
    u had the pre amp off on the kenwood 570 there was
    slightly more differences in signals. when was on
    the differences were very small if any. for testing
    purposes i think the pre amp should be off for a more
    accurate reading .imho ..but very nice reports
     
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  8. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    Good idea hotrod. I've checked this out before, but here is a video showing the affects. Sorry that I didn't explore all of the aspects of this comparison test.

    YouTube - Marcooni's last antenna comparison report in this series 032111
     
    #8
  9. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    Here is a video that supports the following Signal Reports 45-46 showing readings with my Pre-Amp both on and off.

    View attachment Signal Report #45.pdf

    View attachment Signal Report #46.pdf
     
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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  10. Blue_Max

    Blue_Max Member

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    Nice test. I use the Starduster with shortened radials (about 5 feet long and coils at the end) and I´m very pleased with it.
     
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  11. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    Thank you Blue Max, I'm a Starduster fan, an antenna nut if you will.

    The shortened SD'r sounds interesting, how about a picture or two and tell us why and how you came about that design. I'm always interested in hearing about other guy's ideas and to see how and why they do what they do. Is what you have similar to the old Starduster 800? I've only see pictures of it, but I read that it was produced at one time. I don't think it was shortened very much however, but I'm not sure either.

    Welcome to the forum.
     
    #11
  12. Meglotron

    Meglotron Member

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    maybe that merlin 55 should have shortened radial arms to. it already beats all other 5/8, with shortened radial arms it should get out better than any beam to.;)
     
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  13. GnG8d

    GnG8d Well-Known Member

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    :LOL: I don't experiment with verticals like some of these guys, but even I know better than that!
     
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  14. gamegetter

    gamegetter Well-Known Member

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    http://www.worldwidedx.com/cb-antennas/102534-what-w8ji-says-about-1-4-wave-vs-5-8-wave.html

    i believe there are 1/4 wave antennas that can out perform 5/8 wave antennas especially if the 5/8 has no ground plane. see above thread. the problem i have as well as other's is that the merlin 55 has both a capacitance hat as well as a coil...but i have not personally ran that merlin 55, model, but i have run a a 1/4 wave ground plane i constructed back in the early 70's that gave me very good performance. between my 3 element and my 1/4 wave gp i enjoyed many many hours of fun on the air waves.

    hope i'm not :bdh:
     
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  15. Marconi

    Marconi Supporting Member

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    Well gamegetter, I can't disagree with you much, I too have a high regard for my Starduster and Starduster styled Marcon X antennas. W8JI claims aside, my thinking on this subject comes from personal experience only, but I tend to agree with him, while it seems the whole rest of the world thinks the 1/4 wave radiator just produces wasted RF.

    I've never been able to convince anyone what I see, change their minds, or give them pause to consider, but I think I'm close with my observations. I can't always claim that my SD'r models will produce the best signal RX/TX, but I don't think I've ever lost a contact either, local or DX, while switching from one to the other. And, when conditions are quite, these little antennas really seem to shine with an excellent receive quality. The only thing I find that comes near in this regard...might be my Gain Master, a New/Old Top One, or a horizontal yagi beam. On the other hand when conditions are noisy, everything acts about the same regarding noise at my location.

    Regarding the Merlin, if it had radials that were slanted down near the same as my SD'r or my Marconi, then I think it should work about the same and maybe even enough better to see it in operation.

    For me, both of my antennas, with 1/4 wave radiators, operate at or near the center of CB with a little reactance at the feed point. If I try to tune it out by adjusting the element length, then the resonance is even more so ill-affected and the resistance and reactance grow further apart. On the other hand the resistance for both is pretty steady at around 50 ohms, and that is good. So, the match is still pretty good, and the bandwidth is excellent, so they work well for me not-with-standing the excess reactance.

    My thinking is, however, that maybe the Merlin, with the matching coil right below the top hat, is able to provide and even better reactive match, maintaining the resistive quality, and maybe show a little extra gain as a result. If so, will it be enough to see operating my radio? I DON'T KNOW!

    But I hope one day to be able to test that idea that Terry uses in his design with my ground plane design below it...and see. IMO, the radials really must be slanted down more than 55 makes his on the Merlin, so I would like to be able to place his top radiator over my radials slanted down at about 27* degrees or less, while using my custom made A99 styled GPK hub, and see just how if works in that configuration.

    I am a big proponent of antennas that are constructed with symmetry and balance of design in mind.
     
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