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need info on how to modify a sirio sy27-4 for 10m

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio Antennas' started by eacky, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. eacky

    eacky Member

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    need info on how to modify a sirio SY27-4 cb yagi to 10m.


     
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  2. W5LZ

    W5LZ Crotchety Old Bastard

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    Very basically, you adjust the lengths of the various elements to the higher frequency. that means that presently the elements are too long. So, you 'scale' the antenna to the frequency you want.
    One method is to measure each element. Then multiply those measurements by the antenna's resonant frequency (where it's tuned for now). Then divide those numbers by the new frequency you want the thing to be resonant on. Convert those feet and inches to a decimal number (18 feet and 3 inches would then be 18.25 feet). Then divide that number by the frequency. Keep the frequency in the same measurements too. Channel 19 is 27.185 Mhz, so the new frequency should be in Mhz too.
    That should get you in the ball-park, and then using the gamma match to do the impedance matching just like you did for 11 meters.
    - 'Doc
     
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  3. Robb

    Robb Yup

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    Here you go:

    Method #1
    *Buy antenna
    *Assemble
    *Tune Gamma match for ~27.555mhz
    *Use antenna tuner to get 10m
    *That is one way - but it does work

    OR

    Method #2
    Go through the painstaking process of trimming each element length by dividing 27.205mHz (stock tuning for this beam) with the frequency center that you want to tune it to - say 28.400mHz phone band. I get ~0.957922; this is what you use as a multiplier for each element length. The spacing between the elements will also need to be shifted by that same multiplier.

    But I use method #1.
    Although it might not be the best/proper way and it will change the lobe pattern somewhat, it works without much fuss.

    SY27-4,
     

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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  4. eacky

    eacky Member

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    I'am new to the internet so i hope uses get my thanks for the info. I dont like to use antenna matchers so i think i,ll go for the maths n' cutting. I wont be using it on 11 so i'll cut it for 10. Thanks a lot for the info guys 73.
     
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  5. wavrider

    wavrider W9WDX Amateur Radio Club Member

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    Beam Lengths

    scroll down the page and you will find dimensions for a 10 meter yagi.
     
    #5
  6. Robb

    Robb Yup

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    The only problem I see with using standard beam dimensions with the Sirio beam, is that the Sirio beam doesn't use a standard length boom. The boom length on the Sirio is about~13 ft long; whereas the standard boom is about~16 ft for a 4 element Yagi.

    Soooo . . . . Having said that, the way to change the beam for 10m is to scale it using the formula above for the element and spacing between the elements. That should work out OK.

    This Sirio beam beam was 'computer optimized'. Which I suspect means that some engineers at Sirio used some EZNEC program to make it work on a short boom length. This part is speculation; but if you must you might try to contact Sirio and ask for the details. If you must. I did.

    That is the same info the Mr Mezzadrelli sent me concerning re-tuning the beam for a different freq center. But I would double check my math to be sure that it is correct before you commit to cut or change anything.

    Ing. Mezzadrelli Lorenzo
    SIRIO Antenne SRL
    Via Liguria 15
    46049 Volta Mantovana (MN) - ITALY
    Ph. +39-0376-801515; fax +39-0376-801254
    l.mezzadrelli@sirioantenne.it
    Sirio Antenne - High Performance Antenna
     
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  7. W5LZ

    W5LZ Crotchety Old Bastard

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    "Pains taking measurements"? Guess that just depends on how hard it is for someone to measure something. Other wise, that's about as 'standard'/'normal' a way of converting any antenna to a different frequency. Is it going to result in the absolute best optimized beam antenna for that new frequency? Nope, but it will certainly be adequate and typical.
    Optimizing one particular aspect/characteristic of a directional antenna is always a compromise with it's other characteristics. If you want some of that 'optimizing', then go get it. That means using a tool that can tell you how to go about it, and that generally means an antenna modeling or 'optimizing' program. There's quite a few of them floating around (and for a long time) so finding one shouldn't be all that difficult.
    - 'Doc
     
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  8. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur Staff Member

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    I wouldn't be too concerned with element spacing but I would adjust the element lengths. The difference in spacing is not nearly as critical as the lenghs and will change the overall impedance more than it will change the pattern or gain as the difference in spacing from 11m to 10m is not that much as compared to the difference in element lengths. For single band use I would definitely adjust the lengths and forget about a tuner.
     
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  9. eacky

    eacky Member

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    Thanks to all for the good info i will resize the elements and not bother with the spacing. I dont think the spacing will make to much of a difference, i'am new to ham radio and the internet. Got my ticket last month n' i've been a sw listener for about 15 years so i think i know a wee bit (not much) but its good to have the internet for info from people who know better thank guys. 73
     
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  10. Robb

    Robb Yup

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    Sent to me from Sirio/Italy:

    Dear Mr. Xxxxxx:

    SY 27-4 is not a tunable antenna and SIRIO ANTENNE doesn't effect
    substitutions and doesn't guarantee the correct working of altered products.

    However, if you really want to try to change the work freq. of the antenna,
    I can give you a method.

    To work at 27.555MHz you must to RESCALE all lengths using this formula:


    Final_length = (27.2 / 27.555) x Initial_length = 0.9871 x Initial_length

    So:
    REFLECTOR : New length = 0.9871 x 5740 = 5666 mm
    DRIVEN: New length = 0.9871 x 5400 = 5330 mm
    1 DIRECTOR: New length = 0.9871 x 5130 = 5064mm
    2 DIRECTOR: New length = 0.9871 x 4890 = 4827 mm

    Initially, I suggest to not rescale spacing between elements (only for
    mechanical
    possible problems) and verify the correct electrical working.

    After the rescale you must to tune the antenna moving the gamma-match and
    using a ros-meter (I can't help you now; the new position is not prevedible)

    If the antenna doesn't work well; then you can also try to rescale the spacing
    between elements (using the same formula above)


    Reflector-driven: New length = 0.9871 x 1570 = 1550 mm
    Driven-1 director: New length = 0.9871 x 1020 = 1007 mm
    Director 1 - director 2: New length = 0.9871 x 1410 = 1392 mm

    Then re-tune the antenna by moving the gamma-match.


    I remark that this is only a theoretical method and we don't guarantee the
    correct working of antenna.

    Best regards,

    Ing. Mezzadrelli Lorenzo
    Engineer/Sirio
     
    #10
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  11. eacky

    eacky Member

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    Thanks Robb much apprecitated man, now i know exactley what to do all the best, cheers.
     
    #11
: 10m radio, sy27-4

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