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Power Pill 60,80, and 100

9C1Driver

Sr. Member
Aug 13, 2008
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I was surfing http://www.xforceamps.com/ and I see they are using different finals in their amplifiers now. They have three listed as PP60, PP80, and PP100 which replace the 1446,2290, and 2879 in that order. Not much information out there about these, I wonder who they have making them? It appears they will start selling these as replacement parts in the near future. It would be great if they were reasonably priced, a drop in replacement, and can perform at or near the same as the originals.
 

I have yet to see one cracked open to visually compare to the real deal 2sc2879s. No spec sheets are available and I wouldn't expect any from a Chinese non-ISO certified production facility. There has been no discussion on IMD levels.

For now they're just filling the void left by Toshiba. Time will tell if they are robust or as clean as the originals. Believe me, a lot of folks would love to see a reliable equivalent (or better) replacement for the good 'ol 2879.

In the mean time I just scan the adds for old boxes that have the original Toshibas and set 'em on the shelf.
 
I wonder if they will beta/gain match them? At first I thought that they might be remarked DEI brand.
But they are holding Toshiba specifications. I wonder if the cost will be as high as the military part.
 
The Mototola 454 & 455 finals have been discontinued for years and are even harder to find. They are not a direct swap for a 2290 or 2879. They are also smaller in size and power output.
 
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I have just replaced a pair of blown DEI 2SC2879 transistors in a Texas Star 350HDV with some of the X-Force PP100 transistors. I wanted to try them and compare to the DEI's. Maximum power output is similar to or same as the DEI's, but definitely not Toshiba's. If and when they go bad, I'll pop them open and compare to the DEI that I have on my bench that just fell apart.
 
What my question would be is how much drive is needed to get the PP transistors to a good power level and still retain a long life span. Meaning keeping the heat down without having to add fans and large hear sinks and such. Also while monitoring this on an O'scope.
Not really interested in seeing numbers on a watt meter, but rather a clean signal being transmitted. This takes some other things as well like good filtering and proper biasing and such. And quality parts being used in conjunction with the PP transistors. Not re-invent the wheel, but to truly be able to give good accurate info about them.
Also we all know the days of the Toshiba 2879 are just about gone. There are still some around. But they will get good prices for them.
I say look to other devices such as the PP transistors or even better some proper RF type Mosfets. Yes they cost much more, but you get what you pay for these days man. Pretty well a fact on most things anyways. Sure there is some cheap stuff that works well, but overall it's made cheap and once broken, hits the road in a garbage bin. This may just be my opinion. But I doubt I am the only one that feels this way.
With more people using HF radios for 11m SSB use, you would think someone other than the big companies could figure out how to make a nice amp for using with an HF radio that won't have issues. Something very stable and can truly make the user feel comfortable about using it. But hey I suppose there aren't enough people looking for amps such as this. Thus the keep copying the old design and to hell with trying new stuff. But hey like I said, if people would truly stop worrying about looking at watt meters all day and focus on running a clean amp that will provide some stuff that the high end amps for amateur use are built with.
Good VSWR protection, stable, thermally tracking AB, or even class A, amps. The issue is most 11m operators that truly don't know any better just assume that their amp is working well because it shows it working good on the watt meter.
Sorry for the rant I suppose you could say. But why not look forward here a little and leave the past copied and re copied design on the curb and start fresh maybe. I know, I am dreaming. This hobby is dying a slow death whether we will admit it or not. Kids these days don't give 2 shits about a CB radio or even ham radios for that matter. Yes there are some, but not that many. And very few on the CB. Look at it this way, take the average age of most people on a CB these days and see where it's headed. And I hate to say this even myself, as I am only 40. But no one that I know my age around here is interested in the amateur or even the CB radio thing anymore. And I am being serious. Maybe a couple close to my age. But most are 60 or more years old.
Wish it wasn't this way, but obviously the cell phone killed a lot of stuff. Anyways, text wall complete for the day. And these are JMHO's.
And yes, thanks for posting info about the new transistors, the Power Pill transistor. It is nice that at least a few are willing to do this. Shows they are truly interested in how well the quality of things are these days and only serves to more prove what I said earlier. When things break these days, they are usually made in China cheap junk that hits the garbage can. Anyhow. Be safe testing!!!! Good day.
 
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Yes, pretty much I agree with you. But unless someone or a good company is willing to invest the resources to to manufacture what you are suggesting, us folks at the bottom of the food chain just have to work with what is available to us. And try to improve what we have.
One thing I have seen with my Texas Star amps ( I have three 350HDV's and three 500V's) is that they all came with the DEI 2SC2879 transistors and they all performed very badly except one of the 350's. Just repairing all with brand new Toshiba's brought them all to life. No more oscillating amps, no more high SWR's.
Except the one 350HDV that I put the PP100 transistors into. I plan on pushing it with more dead key (greater than 4 watts). I want to find out if it can handle 5,6,or 7 watts input and still perform without dying. With DEI's, I have had three Texas Star amps die with just a 4 watt dead key input. I have had two have a continuous self oscillating problem that would not let the amp unkey without killing the power. The last one was my fault by forgetting to turn down the RF power from max from my Stryker 955HPC and hitting the amp with it. That amp lasted two keyups and then died.
Well anyway, I am giving a pair of the PP100 transistors a tryout in one of my 350's. We'll see how it works out and I'll post when and if it has issues.
 
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X Forces output claims on the PP100 2879 replacements are absurd. One of the locals bought a X Force comp 4 pill and they claim 1000 watts peak output with the PP100 transistors.....he is only getting 650 watts peak driving it with 240 watts peak. Any 2879 made in China will be a complete disappointment.
 
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There are so many variables with power ratings. Proof is on the spectrum analyzer and modulation O-scope traces. Almost any watt meter can be adjusted to show anything and not all watts are on frequency (especially when over driving the devices)

Remember that it doesn't sound as exciting saying his (4) pill has an "X" IMD distortion level at "X" KHz wide at "X" power level. Real numbers that are similar to stereo receiver and stereo amplifier ratings. For some reason when it comes to CB radio stuff all that is tossed out the window for unmerited hype. No wonder so many CB operators blow up there equipment after seeing these videos and listening to builder's claims.
 
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Good info guys. I guess my whole point for this thread was I hope these Power Pill finals can perform better then the DEI replacements, and as close to the Toshiba's as possible. As the years go by a quality 2290/2879/1446 replacement will be needed as amplifiers break.
 
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