at least someone is weighing in now that gives a fuck
YEEHAW !!!!! :headbang:headbang:headbang
Maybe there is hope for this "FORUM"
Personally I could care less what you do with your radios, however bad info is an all-together different thing.
-
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RCI 2950DX
- Thread starter d1g1man
- Start date
Personally I could care less what you do with your radios, however bad info is an all-together different thing.
You can use anything you want on the ham bands providing you have the ticket and are following the emissions standards for the modes used. However, I think the question was if it is legal to use 2950dx on the CB band? The answer is "No, Not ever". It doesn't matter if you are following the proper power levels or any other CB requirements; it's still not legal. Does that mean that the FCC will come knocking on your door if you do that? Unlikely, unless you piss the wrong person off. The FCC gave enforcement rights to local law enforcement a few years ago. Local law enforcement doesn't know a CB from a VCR. The FCC only acts on complaints when it comes to the CB band. Be responsible and you won't have any trouble. But that's a different question than, "is it legal?".
I wonder how many other hams have this misconception. definately NOT true.
A LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR has the authority
to use any band or frequency ,or any means at their disposal !
necessary to carry out emergency
radio traffic , pertaining to life or property saving measures .
to facilitate aid or relief ,
for the unititiated, that means
that I CAN get on the frequencies the COPS USE , and announce
a life or death emergency .
Provided its for real , and I readily indentify myself
And you better be able to provide proof that it was a real life and death emergency and that there was in fact absolutly no other means of communications possible at the time. At all. Period. There have been cases where people have had their tickets revoked and were charged for operating on a local sherrif's freq. even when they thought they were doing right.
As addressed before, even a licensed amateur radio operator cannot use these radios on 11m. They can however use them on 10 or 12m.
No arguement. Just setting the facts right about the lawfull use of these radios.
Very good advice especially about reading up on the rules.
excellent Post Mole!
For the record, I've been a licensed Extra for about 11 years now.
Interestingly enough my best conversations are had with people I know from 11 meters.
Most of us also try to hide away on a simplex frequency or, back on 11 meters some where
.Seems like most of our conversations in the "Whole nother world" are riddled with individuals pointing out minor infractions of the laws. Or feeling the need to belittle one of the group because they have roots that started on "CB Radio"
It is fairly cool though, we've had a recent resurrection of some of the old voices from back in the day, and a number of "Hams" are actually getting back to there roots.
I enjoy aspects of both sides of the coin, What I don't enjoy is Pompous AssHats on either side of the world...
I stand Corrected ,
SO to clear up the original question ,
They are illegal for 11 mtrs in anycase , in anybodys hands !!!!!!
although its "non Sequitur"
I'll go sit in the corner now
I stand Corrected ,
I'll go sit in the corner now
You must also put on the dunce cap, and write on the black board 100 times....
"I will never smoke hash again".......
oh'....and you owe us 20 push ups too.......
The one little sticky in all the FCC rules that seperates the amateur world from the rest of radio is that...."Type Accepted".....thing, it's what legally keeps us from using our 2m radios on the VHF Marine frequencies, and our 10m rigs off the 11m band....
In the real world that's just not the case, and many have for many years operated under the FCC's radar on non type accepted equipment.
Many in the emergency services use amateur HT's clipped to Tx out of band for emergency communications. Most type accepted radios designed for emergency operators are super expensive, very difficult to program, and far more limited in what they can do than most of your modern amateur HT's on the market.
I know several licensed HAM's who are also boaters and fishermen that find it far more convienient to install one 2m radio in their boat's console, and program it for the VHF Marine frequencies they need, and use just one radio for two purposes. The VHF Marine band has 80 some channels, the average boater only needs or has use of 10 to 12 of those channels, the rest are a waste of space unless you are in the Coast Guard Auxillary, or in a State Police Marine unit.
As has been pointed out, by the letter of the part 97 law this is not legal. But again, if you operate in accordance with proper proceedure in that particular radio service, you have a better chance of getting hit by lightening than you do of getting spanked by Uncle Sam's radio police.
at least this subject can be openly discussed like gentlemen on this forum without the QRZ Radio lawyers bashing our opinions.......
Haha! I'd say probably most of the "commercial" sport fishing boats here do that, and a whole lot of the private fishing guys do, too. (Ocean fishing is my obsession, but no boat yet
). One reason they do this is because there are a few frequencies that are actually allocated to vhf marine that are not on most of the vhf marine radios. A lot of the fishermen hang out on these frequencies. The other reason is because they can get a little more power output.You are absolutely right because we write the laws we hire the folks who work for us and we fire them even faster ...We do what we do because we live in a free society .. and all the legalists ...are really only legalists because they weren't hugged enough by mommy as a baby ...Don't you know some people want to be cops..... but getting hold of a radio ..don't make you one ..What ever happened to those trailerpark key down sessions and drunken brawls in the parking lots over who owns channel 2...seems like just yesterday I was kicking old "beer can" in the head after he caught us tearing down his moonraker antenna ..
2950 nice lil radio ... still miss my 2970 5 watts swinging 180
The RCI-2950dx is not type accepted by the FCC for the reason it has deemed it an illegal radio due to the nature in which it is easily converted for 11 meter band use and therefore is not legal for sale in the U.S.A.YES !! IT IS !!!
it's intended for amateur radio use on 10 and 12 mtrs
but ,thats not gonna discourage enterprising 11 mtr operators
from taking one and "opening it up "
the manufacturer and radio dealers openly skirt this issue
because they want to sell radios !!!!!!
and they'll tell you anything you want to hear to git yur money !
unfortunately these rigs have gotten a bad rap
because a lot of 11 mtr ops , have done this "PRECISELY"
and wander down on ten mtrs :blink:
i've even seen threads on this forum about unlicensed operators
using these freqs:sad:
By the letter of the law ,
it is not legal for 11 meter operation
for unlicensed operators!!!
and just because you own one and use it on 11 meters
does not mean "THAT ITS LEGAL "
on the other hand , IT IS LEGAL for a LICENSED AMATUER RADIO OPERATOR , to own one of these and use it on 11 meters ,
PROVIDED , he or she , operates it under the legal power output limits
provided for the 11 mtr band . ie 4 watts dead carrier am
also , he or she can operate with the same impunity .
as the rest of the Crowd
no call sign , roger beeps ,noise makers, profanity ,etc, ,
as long as its under the legal power limit
A HAM Has the Authority to operate any "TRANSMITTING DEVICE he or she chooses
as long as it follows the rules for the band or frequency its being operated on , as long as he or she has the LEGAL AUTHORITY to operate there
meaning ,basically that hams have the same privileges on 11 mtrs
that all the unlicensed people do
but that unlicensed operators do not have priveleges on licensed HAM Bands !!!
furthermore ,
A LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR has the authority
to use any band or frequency ,or any means at their disposal !
necessary to carry out emergency
radio traffic , pertaining to life or property saving measures .
to facilitate aid or relief ,
for the unititiated, that means
that I CAN get on the frequencies the COPS USE , and announce
a life or death emergency .
Provided its for real , and I readily indentify myself
little wonder
a lot of guys choose to learn the rules
and get a ticket to the whole other world of radio !
NOW !
will the fcc do anything about it - unlikely!
its a good rig , well suited for operation between 12 and 10
BOTTOM LINE !
it is illegal for anyone other than a LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR
to operate these rigs on 11 meters .
they are not "TYPE ACCEPTED "
but that wont stop anybody will it ?
its widely held that a HAM will know how to control his PEP
and modulation to hold it under the LEGAL LIMITS
or , he or she will be subject to prosecution or fines
if they do not ,
meanwhile , the rest of the 11 mtr world .
who cant be traced , can do whatever they wish and CROW about it
and are unlikely to get POPPED !
doesn't mean you wont get caught ,
its very unlikely you will :bored:
but you dont need to come here and argue your point
IT"S ILLEGAL , End of story
its doubtful that any thing useful will come of this thread ,
other than to point out the fine points of the law
and spark further argument !!!!
Read up on the rules Fella's , and get yur ticket !!!!!!!!!!
IT"S a Whole nother world !!!!
Happy Trails
FC
Yet anyone - and I mean anyone - can buy one at any time.
Seems like there are two sets of rules working here. It's OK for business to sell us these radios, and it's OK for the FCC to come down on us for using them. While us American citizens get to sit in the middle and get screwed for it.
Either don't sell them at all - or change the regulations.
But don't - and I repeat don't - screw with American citizens just because you think you can "FCC".
I gotta Say , i am getting one hell of an education Today !
I've been told and it is clearly stated That an amatuer radio operator
can operate anything he chooses as long as it is legal for the frequency it is being operated on , and the operator has the necessary privileges
to operate on that frequency ,
if a tech could get a garbage can to throw out rf on 2 mtrs ,and its under the legal power limit
then it would be perfectly legal
but,
then i see that The FCC has mandated a list of
"amateur" radio transcievers that are illegal to import or market
in the United States . "Because ,They are too easily converted for 11 mtr use "
they are readily available, and the manufacturers and dealers make no bones about it ,
what a double standard !!!!!!!!!
no wonder there is confusion and debate regarding this topic
ive been reading and googling all afternoon trying to get studied up on
this, and yeah ! I was misinformed !!!!
here is the list of all the banned radios
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ILLEGAL CB TRANSCEIVER LISTThe FCC’s Office of Engineer and Technology (OET) has evaluated the devices listed below and has concluded that these devices are not only amateur transceivers but can easily be altered for use as Citizens Band (CB) transceivers as well. As such, OET has further concluded that these devices cannot legally be imported or marketed within the United States for the reasons discussed below. Further, the FCC General Council has issued a decision in a specific case involving one manufacturer and has concluded that dual use CB and amateur radios of the kind at issue may not be approved under the Commission’s rules and are in violation of several rules including the RF power level limits of 47 CFR 95.639. (letter from Christopher J. Wright, FCC-OGC to John F. Atwood, US Customs Service, dated May 17, 1999).
Transceivers used in the Amateur Radio Service below 30 MHz do not require FCC authorization prior to being imported into or marketed within the United States, but transceivers for other services, including the CB Radio Service (CB), do require Commission approval. The transceivers listed herein and other similar models operate in the amateur "10-meter band" and are often referred to as "10-meter" radios or "export" radios. The amateur 10-meter band uses frequencies that are very close to the channels set aside for use in the CB service. Some of the transceivers that manufacturers call "10-meter" radios either operate on CB frequencies as manufactured and imported or are designed such that internal circuits can readily be activated by a user, a service technician or a dealer to operate on CB frequencies. According to Section 95.603(c) of the Commission’s rules, a CB transmitter is a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate at a station authorized for the CB service. 47C.F.R. § 95.603(c). The Commission’s equipment authorization experts in the FCC Laboratory have determined that the transceivers listed herein and other similar models at issue here are intended for use on the CB frequencies as well as those in the amateur service because they have built-in capability to operate on CB frequencies. This capability can be readily activated by moving or removing a jumper plug, cutting or splicing a wire, plugging in a connector, or other simple means. Thus, all the transceivers listed herein and similar models fall within the definition of a CB transmitter. See 47C.F.R. § 95.603(c). A CB transmitter must be certificated by the FCC prior to marketing or importation. 47 C.F.R. §§ 95.603(c); 2.803.
Moreover, the dual use CB and amateur radios of the kind at issue here may not be certified under the Commission’s rules. Section 95.655(a) states: "….([CB] Transmitters with frequency capability for the Amateur Radio Services … will not be certificated.)" See also Amendment of Part 95, Subpart E, Technical Regulations in the Personal Radio Services Rules, FCC 88-256, 1888 WL 488084 (August 17, 1988). This clarification was added to explicitly foreclose the possibility of certification of dual use CB and amateur radios, see id, and thereby deter use by CB operators of frequencies allocated for amateur radio use.
In addition, the Commission’s equipment authorization experts have determined that these devices violate or appear to violate a number of the rules governing CB devices. For example, they may use emission types not permitted, or emit RF power at a level in excess of the levels permitted in the CB radio service. See 47 C.F.R. § 95.639.
In view of the foregoing, the following "10-meter" transceivers are not acceptable for importation or marketing into/within the United States. Importation and marketing of these units is illegal pursuant to Section 302(b) of the Communications Act and Section 2.803 of the rules. Willful violations of the Rules and the Act may subject the violator to a monetary forfeiture of not more than $11,000 for each violation or each day of a continuing violation. The Commission continues to review this type of equipment, and additional makes and models may be added to this list in the future.
NOTE FROM QTH.COM: This list was modified to include additional radios. Radios that were added are displayed with a hotlink to the documentation and/or reason for the addition
COBRA - model: 200 GTL DX
CONNEX - models: 3300, 3300 HP, 3300HP-ZX, 3300 PLUS, CX-3800, 4300 HP, 4300 HP 300, 4400, 4400 HP, 4600 Turbo, 4800 DXL, 4800 HPE, Deer Hunter, General Lee, General Washington
GALAXY - models: 33HML, 44V, 45MP, 48T, 55, 55V, 66V, 73V, 77, 77HML, 88HL, 93T, 95T, 99V, 2517, 2527, 2547, Melaka, Saturn and Saturn Turbo
GENERAL - General Jackson, Grant, Stonewall Jackson, Lee, Washington, A.P. Hill, Longstreet, Sherman
MAGNUM - models: 257, 357DX, Alpha force, Delta Force, Mini, Omega Force,S3, S3RF, S6, S9,
MIRAGE - models: 33HP, 44, 88, 99, 2950, 2950EX, 2970, 6600, 88H/L, 9900,
NORTH STAR - models: NS-3000 and NS-9000
PRESIDENT - models: Grant, J.F.K., Jackson, Lincoln, HR-2510 and HR-2600
PRO STAR - model: 240
RANGER / RCI - models: AR-3500, RCI-2900, RCI-2950, RCI-2950-DX, RCI-2970, RCI-2970-DX, RCI-2980-WX, RCI-2985-DX, RCI-2995-DX, RCI-6300, RCI-6300 Turbo, RCI-6300F-25, RCI-6300F-150, RCI-6900, RCI-6900 Turbo, RCI-6900F-25, RCI-6900F-150, RG-99, Voyage VR-9000
STRYKER - model: 440
SUPERSTAR - model: 121, 122, 36, 3700, 3900, 3900HP, 3900 American Spirit, 3900 HP G, 3900 Gold, 3900GHPA, 3900GHPM, 4800, Grant
TEK - model: HR-3950
UNIDEN - models: HR-2510 and HR-2600
VIRAGE - model: 3300, 3300 HP, VX-38, VX-39,
For further information concerning the listed transceivers or similar models, contact Ray LaForge or Gary Hendrickson at the FCC Laboratory, 7435 Oakland Mills Road, Columbia, MD 21046, (301) 362-3041 or (301) 362-3043 respectively, or E-mail: rlaforge@fcc.gov and ghendric@fcc.gov
When asking the FCC about other Ranger radios that appear to be easy to modify for 11 meter operation, but are not specifically listed above, the reply received was:
i guess the thing is , as long as you operate with courtesy and respect
you won't have any problems , regardless of what you run .
Still it is a shock to me to have the fcc tell me i can use anything i want
to transmit on bands i am licensed for ,
and since i hold a general ,i have full privileges on ten and twelve
but then turn around and tell me i cant own one of these radios , because
they can be modified for use on 11 mtrs , SO WHAT !!!
I can legally operate there also !!!!
What a big ball of SHIT :headbang
and hence my "confusion" about this issue
and i can readily see now why others may be confused
about this too,
pretty soon they'll be telling me what brand of toilet paper to use :redface:
Peace !!!!!!
Rich
I've been told and it is clearly stated That an amatuer radio operator
can operate anything he chooses as long as it is legal for the frequency it is being operated on , and the operator has the necessary privileges
to operate on that frequency ,
if a tech could get a garbage can to throw out rf on 2 mtrs ,and its under the legal power limit
then it would be perfectly legal
but,
then i see that The FCC has mandated a list of
"amateur" radio transcievers that are illegal to import or market
in the United States . "Because ,They are too easily converted for 11 mtr use "
they are readily available, and the manufacturers and dealers make no bones about it ,
what a double standard !!!!!!!!!
no wonder there is confusion and debate regarding this topic
ive been reading and googling all afternoon trying to get studied up on
this, and yeah ! I was misinformed !!!!
here is the list of all the banned radios
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ILLEGAL CB TRANSCEIVER LISTThe FCC’s Office of Engineer and Technology (OET) has evaluated the devices listed below and has concluded that these devices are not only amateur transceivers but can easily be altered for use as Citizens Band (CB) transceivers as well. As such, OET has further concluded that these devices cannot legally be imported or marketed within the United States for the reasons discussed below. Further, the FCC General Council has issued a decision in a specific case involving one manufacturer and has concluded that dual use CB and amateur radios of the kind at issue may not be approved under the Commission’s rules and are in violation of several rules including the RF power level limits of 47 CFR 95.639. (letter from Christopher J. Wright, FCC-OGC to John F. Atwood, US Customs Service, dated May 17, 1999).
Transceivers used in the Amateur Radio Service below 30 MHz do not require FCC authorization prior to being imported into or marketed within the United States, but transceivers for other services, including the CB Radio Service (CB), do require Commission approval. The transceivers listed herein and other similar models operate in the amateur "10-meter band" and are often referred to as "10-meter" radios or "export" radios. The amateur 10-meter band uses frequencies that are very close to the channels set aside for use in the CB service. Some of the transceivers that manufacturers call "10-meter" radios either operate on CB frequencies as manufactured and imported or are designed such that internal circuits can readily be activated by a user, a service technician or a dealer to operate on CB frequencies. According to Section 95.603(c) of the Commission’s rules, a CB transmitter is a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate at a station authorized for the CB service. 47C.F.R. § 95.603(c). The Commission’s equipment authorization experts in the FCC Laboratory have determined that the transceivers listed herein and other similar models at issue here are intended for use on the CB frequencies as well as those in the amateur service because they have built-in capability to operate on CB frequencies. This capability can be readily activated by moving or removing a jumper plug, cutting or splicing a wire, plugging in a connector, or other simple means. Thus, all the transceivers listed herein and similar models fall within the definition of a CB transmitter. See 47C.F.R. § 95.603(c). A CB transmitter must be certificated by the FCC prior to marketing or importation. 47 C.F.R. §§ 95.603(c); 2.803.
Moreover, the dual use CB and amateur radios of the kind at issue here may not be certified under the Commission’s rules. Section 95.655(a) states: "….([CB] Transmitters with frequency capability for the Amateur Radio Services … will not be certificated.)" See also Amendment of Part 95, Subpart E, Technical Regulations in the Personal Radio Services Rules, FCC 88-256, 1888 WL 488084 (August 17, 1988). This clarification was added to explicitly foreclose the possibility of certification of dual use CB and amateur radios, see id, and thereby deter use by CB operators of frequencies allocated for amateur radio use.
In addition, the Commission’s equipment authorization experts have determined that these devices violate or appear to violate a number of the rules governing CB devices. For example, they may use emission types not permitted, or emit RF power at a level in excess of the levels permitted in the CB radio service. See 47 C.F.R. § 95.639.
In view of the foregoing, the following "10-meter" transceivers are not acceptable for importation or marketing into/within the United States. Importation and marketing of these units is illegal pursuant to Section 302(b) of the Communications Act and Section 2.803 of the rules. Willful violations of the Rules and the Act may subject the violator to a monetary forfeiture of not more than $11,000 for each violation or each day of a continuing violation. The Commission continues to review this type of equipment, and additional makes and models may be added to this list in the future.
LIST OF TRANSCEIVERS
ILLEGAL TO IMPORT OR MARKET
ILLEGAL TO IMPORT OR MARKET
NOTE FROM QTH.COM: This list was modified to include additional radios. Radios that were added are displayed with a hotlink to the documentation and/or reason for the addition
COBRA - model: 200 GTL DX
CONNEX - models: 3300, 3300 HP, 3300HP-ZX, 3300 PLUS, CX-3800, 4300 HP, 4300 HP 300, 4400, 4400 HP, 4600 Turbo, 4800 DXL, 4800 HPE, Deer Hunter, General Lee, General Washington
GALAXY - models: 33HML, 44V, 45MP, 48T, 55, 55V, 66V, 73V, 77, 77HML, 88HL, 93T, 95T, 99V, 2517, 2527, 2547, Melaka, Saturn and Saturn Turbo
GENERAL - General Jackson, Grant, Stonewall Jackson, Lee, Washington, A.P. Hill, Longstreet, Sherman
MAGNUM - models: 257, 357DX, Alpha force, Delta Force, Mini, Omega Force,S3, S3RF, S6, S9,
MIRAGE - models: 33HP, 44, 88, 99, 2950, 2950EX, 2970, 6600, 88H/L, 9900,
NORTH STAR - models: NS-3000 and NS-9000
PRESIDENT - models: Grant, J.F.K., Jackson, Lincoln, HR-2510 and HR-2600
PRO STAR - model: 240
RANGER / RCI - models: AR-3500, RCI-2900, RCI-2950, RCI-2950-DX, RCI-2970, RCI-2970-DX, RCI-2980-WX, RCI-2985-DX, RCI-2995-DX, RCI-6300, RCI-6300 Turbo, RCI-6300F-25, RCI-6300F-150, RCI-6900, RCI-6900 Turbo, RCI-6900F-25, RCI-6900F-150, RG-99, Voyage VR-9000
STRYKER - model: 440
SUPERSTAR - model: 121, 122, 36, 3700, 3900, 3900HP, 3900 American Spirit, 3900 HP G, 3900 Gold, 3900GHPA, 3900GHPM, 4800, Grant
TEK - model: HR-3950
UNIDEN - models: HR-2510 and HR-2600
VIRAGE - model: 3300, 3300 HP, VX-38, VX-39,
For further information concerning the listed transceivers or similar models, contact Ray LaForge or Gary Hendrickson at the FCC Laboratory, 7435 Oakland Mills Road, Columbia, MD 21046, (301) 362-3041 or (301) 362-3043 respectively, or E-mail: rlaforge@fcc.gov and ghendric@fcc.gov
When asking the FCC about other Ranger radios that appear to be easy to modify for 11 meter operation, but are not specifically listed above, the reply received was:
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:44:21 -0500
From: "Gary Hendrickson" <ghendric@fcc.gov>
We have not had the opportunity to evaluate these two models of Ranger radios, so I can't specifically that they are illegal. We would be happy to evaluate these models, if a "virgin" unit could be obtained from the manufacturer. But until we have such an opportunity, we must assume that they are legal, in that they are not designed and intended to have the capability of easily being altered to operate outside of the amateur bands.
However, if you can determine, on your own, that out-of-band capability does exist, as defined in the other FCC information which you already have, then you could reasonable assume that they are not legal. 73, Gary Hendrickson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------From: "Gary Hendrickson" <ghendric@fcc.gov>
We have not had the opportunity to evaluate these two models of Ranger radios, so I can't specifically that they are illegal. We would be happy to evaluate these models, if a "virgin" unit could be obtained from the manufacturer. But until we have such an opportunity, we must assume that they are legal, in that they are not designed and intended to have the capability of easily being altered to operate outside of the amateur bands.
However, if you can determine, on your own, that out-of-band capability does exist, as defined in the other FCC information which you already have, then you could reasonable assume that they are not legal. 73, Gary Hendrickson
i guess the thing is , as long as you operate with courtesy and respect
you won't have any problems , regardless of what you run .
Still it is a shock to me to have the fcc tell me i can use anything i want
to transmit on bands i am licensed for ,
and since i hold a general ,i have full privileges on ten and twelve
but then turn around and tell me i cant own one of these radios , because
they can be modified for use on 11 mtrs , SO WHAT !!!
I can legally operate there also !!!!
What a big ball of SHIT :headbang
and hence my "confusion" about this issue
and i can readily see now why others may be confused
about this too,
pretty soon they'll be telling me what brand of toilet paper to use :redface:
Peace !!!!!!
Rich
Last edited:
And how is it any easier to convert a 2950 compared to say, something like the icom-706?
I think the real reason the 2950 was put on the banned list is because the display can show the CB channel number instead of just frequency.
This is true but you have missed one VERY important little point. It is legal ONLY within the amateur service. No other radio service allows non-type accepted (or certificated) radio equipment.
That certainly does not help matters. It clearly shows intent to operate on 11m. Opening up an IC-706 or whatever could be to operate with a transverter for full band coverage instead of just a slice. (Yeah right).