Stock Maco gamma vs off-the-shelf beta match CHALLENGE!

[Master Chief]

MC, I think I will discontinue my conversation with you, since you are purporting to be an antenna guy but cant understand antenna gain and loss of a matching network...

I will try to dumb down a analogy you of course will twist and confuse.

Nice try. I have a clear grasp of the way antennas are measured. Have you spent any time modeling antennas?

they dont pose gain figures then say well if you use a hairpin you will get more FS from this antenna

When did I say they said this? I'm the one saying that the more efficient the feedpoint is, the higher the field strength reading will be. I'm the one who is willing to test this theory.

your saying there is more on air signal or something else goofy to that effect using a hairpin, if that is so the Gain is increased, have you ever seen a polar plot of a beam, more signal forward = more gain, more gain = more FS, less losses = more forward signal, if the loss is less than a tenth of a db forward gain will change by a tenth of a db.

Nothing goofy going on here and I'm not ready to buy into your tenth of a db trade off, but at least you are beginning to see my point. Thank you!

I used web links that you provided and searched the web for hours on end and all have said a hairpin is much simpler to use. Not anywhere has it been said to use it and you will get more FS

I don't know if you will. As I've stated, I'm the one who is making this statement and am the one willing to prove it.

I don't understand the animosity from you. Are you feeling attacked?

BTW, what about your I-10K test results I asked about earlier?

 

[Marconi]

OK, so your idea to use YW was not addressing the subject.

The purpose of using YW was to establish an optimized design to test both feedpoints. You couldn't figure that out?

No! you are right MC, I didn't figure out your intentions until you expressed them. Prior to that I was thinking that something could be proved concerning our discussion about Hairpin vs Gamma.

 

[Marconi]

Hea Blanket, what about your I-10K test results?

When I compared my I-10K at 40' to several other verticals including a Starduster at 50' I saw very little difference. For sure not enough to crow about anyway. That included mostly local RX signal reports.

Sometime back I even posted this report in a thread here on this forum. It was pretty busy and messy, but it was all that I had to supported my words on the subject and included about 25 stations around the Harris county Houston area here in Texas. I am not saying that it was the best test and I don't make any claims about results.

Two antennas were installed at the same time using a switch box to see results. The antennas were about 30' apart and when I reversed the antennas on these two locations I never noticed a difference due to a particular location.

 

[C2]

I vote for the charlie match

 

[davegrantsr]

THANK YOU blanket for understanding 'the point i was trying to make'. as for YOUR comment I will try to dumb down a analogy you of course will twist and confuse. -i can do the same-somebody is trying to justify his expenditure of $30 on the dx engineering piece for a measly .04 db gain AND his outlay of $300 for an i10k for the fantabulous & unfathomable 2 S-unit signal increase. while, i guess the .04 db increase IS better WHO IN GOD'S NAME IS EVER GOING TO NOTICE OR ACTUALLY HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO MEASURE THAT DIFFERENCE?????? not anybody i know. and, maybe i do believe the 2 S-unit increase using the i10k-EITHER the amp & preamp were switched on accidentally when the radio was turned back on to check swr on the i10k OR the maco v5/8 was so inadequately assembled that a coat hanger would've shown 1 S-unit of increase....but, in the i10k's defense, it is marked where to tighten down the hose clamps, & the maco isn't :rknrl

 

[Master Chief]

You don't have to believe it Dave, I'm OK with it.

The I-10K isn't marked anywhere so its clear you have never seen one. If you can read and follow instructions, it is easy to assemble and tune.

The Maco is a good antenna and nobody argues that it works better than an iMAX 2000 or an A-99. The I-10K is even better and worth it to those who want or need the very best.

Why does Maco make a regular V-58 and a higher power V-5000? Is it possible that the regular V-58 is lacking and actually arcs at higher power levels? How about the V-5000? It too arcs at higher power levels. For those running the big power, is the inexpensive $300.00 I-10K worth it? Same argument goes for those in high wind areas. Why is it OK to spend big $$$ on amplifiers, but fall short in the antenna department.

The BEST money you will EVER spend on a radio system is on the ANTENNA and FEEDLINE!

There is a marked improvement with the I-10K and you would see that if you actually checked it out for yourself. Its obvious you won't listen to the hundreds of people out here who have them and dismiss their experience with the lame, "need to justify his expenditure" statement.

You keep purporting this lie and I will continue to tell people the I-10K is truly superior to any other antenna ever made, and to buy a Maco if they can't or won't afford an I-10K.

Next Subject:
I BELIEVE the hairpin performs better than the gamma. I'm willing to prove it or be found wrong. What do you propose?

I haven't twisted or confused anything and have gone above and beyond to explain it to you.

 

[W5LZ]

Are you ready for this? I doubt it but anyway...

There's nothing wrong with testing an idea or a common 'fact'. In fact, it's not a bad idea at all. At the very least it furthers your knowledge and gives the 'authority' who make the assertion a little credence (if it proves out, and if that 'authority' hums a little CCR, that helps too).
Where does that fraction of a dB difference idea come from, and why? That's one of those (assumed' thingys in my case, mostly). Or, why do manufacturers use a particular type matching device rather than another? If there were really big differences, it would certainly cause a switch, wouldn't it? That also assumes that the manufacturer is open to improvements in something other than profit, and since I figure all of them are interested in that, I can't think of any reason there should be a 'huge' difference.
Another thing that's being tested here is the 'YW' (or is it 'WY') program, and what it's capable of doing. Then relating that with all the rest of the data. That part's interesting too. Am I going to pay attention to the results, whatever they are? Sure. As much attention as I'd pay if professionals were doing the testing? Ah... no. I include myself in that 'non-professional' group so don't take it too much to heart, you know,
no criticism is intended.
All the antenna/electronic programs are nice. They sort of give direction to testing. They are never completely definitive! The difficult part of learning to use any of them is learning all the "but's", and when to apply them.
So, after injecting that little 'cattle prod' of a comment, keep it up, I'm learning and enjoying.
- 'Doc

 

[Master Chief]

I own a 40' tower trailer; the antenna will be placed on it and tested at 1/2 wave from ground and full wave from ground.

The receive antenna will be a home made 1/2 wave dipole.

I also picked up one of Radiowavz' 11-meter double bazookas. I want to check this antenna out also. According to a friend of mine who owns 2 of these for 40-meters (one for CW and one cut for the phone band), these antennas don't radiate harmonics. I wonder if this would help eliminate rfi......but that's another subject.

 

[mopar2ya]

According to a friend of mine who owns 2 of these for 40-meters (one for CW and one cut for the phone band), these antennas don't radiate harmonics. I wonder if this would help eliminate rfi......but that's another subject.

The article that makes the harmonics claim says that this characteristic of the antenna is attributed to the fact that it is a single band antenna. As you can see below, they have determined that TVI can be eliminated with it as well. I wouldn't hold out any hope that this is going to help you. I think Amateurs and CB guys as well are simply enamored with the "Bazooka" moniker applied to the antenna. It sounds beefy. Ebay sellers have to love this antenna. They even got you.

This is a single band antenna. It will not radiate harmonics of your operating frequency. In addition, there is very little feedline radiation, which is great for those who have problems with TVI. Its broadband characteristic makes it ideal for 80 meters and 10 meters.

Mopar

 

[Master Chief]

The article that makes the harmonics claim says that this characteristic of the antenna is attributed to the fact that it is a single band antenna. As you can see below, they have determined that TVI can be eliminated with it as well. I wouldn't hold out any hope that this is going to help you. I think Amateurs and CB guys as well are simply enamored with the "Bazooka" moniker applied to the antenna. It sounds beefy. Ebay sellers have to love this antenna. They even got you.

My experience with this antenna at a field day site supports the claim that it about eliminates harmonics. Since switching to the double bazooka on 40-meters, the harmonic interference to the 20-meter station has been almost eliminated. So yes, they got me. The person who owns these antennas loves them.

I don't buy into the "bazooka is beefy" game, although I know what you mean! This is why we have the Interceptor, Penetrator, Predator, Station Master, etc....

I wanted to see for myself so I bought one to try out. Most of the people out here would rather just say that it WON'T work instead of checking it out for themselves. I'm not like that which is why I bought an I-10K, Kale's Predator, the many Macos, some cheap Italian junk (I got these for free), and this bazooka.

 

[davegrantsr]

some cheap Italian junk -i had 1 of those cheap italian 'junks', the sirio tornado 27 5/8. while maybe even LESS broadbanded then my maco v5/8, it performed every bit as well. i sure didn't see or hear any differences. looked like a baby version of the coily.....dan improved a good antenna when he copied it. mechanically.
as for 40' trailer towers & test sites...i don't live at a test site. i use my radio equipment at my home. that is where it needs to perform, at my home under my set of circumstances. a $70 maco v5/8 is still second to none.

 

[Toll_Free]

So, what was the results of this test?

--Toll_Free

 

[wavrider]

So, what was the results of this test?

--Toll_Free

That post is almost four years old. :headbang

 

[jazzsinger]

That post is almost four years old. :headbang

old age ain't all it's cracked out to be,senility starts setting in

 

[CDX-007]

You don't have to believe it Dave, I'm OK with it.

The I-10K isn't marked anywhere so its clear you have never seen one. If you can read and follow instructions, it is easy to assemble and tune.

The Maco is a good antenna and nobody argues that it works better than an iMAX 2000 or an A-99. The I-10K is even better and worth it to those who want or need the very best.

Why does Maco make a regular V-58 and a higher power V-5000? Is it possible that the regular V-58 is lacking and actually arcs at higher power levels? How about the V-5000? It too arcs at higher power levels. For those running the big power, is the inexpensive $300.00 I-10K worth it? Same argument goes for those in high wind areas. Why is it OK to spend big $$$ on amplifiers, but fall short in the antenna department.

The BEST money you will EVER spend on a radio system is on the ANTENNA and FEEDLINE!

There is a marked improvement with the I-10K and you would see that if you actually checked it out for yourself. Its obvious you won't listen to the hundreds of people out here who have them and dismiss their experience with the lame, "need to justify his expenditure" statement.

You keep purporting this lie and I will continue to tell people the I-10K is truly superior to any other antenna ever made, and to buy a Maco if they can't or won't afford an I-10K.

Next Subject:
I BELIEVE the hairpin performs better than the gamma. I'm willing to prove it or be found wrong. What do you propose?

I haven't twisted or confused anything and have gone above and beyond to explain it to you.

I do!

I've been personally involved with replacing 4 Maco V-5/8 with an Imax2000 including Craig, ('CJ') across town a month ago, and every time there has been about an S-unit of improvement on both transmit and receive signal strength! :w00t:

...along with a higher level of static.

And as far as Gamma vs Beta, 'T' match, hairppin, flute or trombone, I would gladly sacrifice .04dB (I'm sorry, did someone sneeze?) for wider bandwidth.

Hey, let's start a new movement, let's bring back all the old interesting threads and pump new life into them!


...or NOT.