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One thing I had in mind when I selected my Yaesu FT-8800 over the FT-7800 was the possibility of using it as a mobile crossband repeater with a dual band HT.

Just about the time I got the nerve to try it, a friend of mine got written up by an Official Observer for doing just want I planned to do. The O.O. said his setup (on an Alinco, BTW) lacked a key-down timer, a remote control shut-down mechanism, and an automatic repeater id message.

I think I can manage a way to shut down if someone starts cussing--and most of the problems go away if I only only repeat the signals from my HT using tones and flipping the offset backwards.

Has anyone come up with a way to make an 8800 ID? --or accept input from an external id board? It almost sounds simpler to get two cheap commercial radios and controller board and make a legal Xband repeater from scratch!

Such a shame to have a nice feature and not be able to use it!

73,

Currahee

Oh Please...was the Op who got written up just using it within range of the parking lot or camp-site (whatever) so he could just walk over there and shut it off if it malfunctioned?

Just because an "official observer" wrote you up doesn't mean you're violating any rules...that's the FCC's job to figure out. He's not an "official enforcer".

I use cross-band repeat all the time at my house. I have it set up so that it has about a 6 block (if that) radius. I have yet to have one problem that caused me to need all that stuff that a regular repeater needs. Everyone I talk to on the radio knows I'm doing it. I even say so on the air.

If you're planning on using it like a remote base where you're not close enough to just walk over and shut it off, then you probably need all that other stuff. Otherwise just use the function for what it was intended for.

Full duplex crossband is where you get 'issues' as when your crossband is transmitting out TO you, it isn't IDng itself.

The fully legal way is to half-duplex

you -> input on xband rig -> input of a repeater... receive the output of the repeater on your handheld.

That way all the transmissions of your crossband are IDd by you during transmissions.

The notice is actually correct....though you are far from the only one doing this. Just please please please pick your inputs carefully so you don't use a link frequency of another repeater or use the output of a repeater as your input.

That's the kind of mistake that will get you immediate attention.

He was demonstrating X-band to a ham group at a restaurant to his vehicle in the parking lot. I thought the O.O. was stretching a bit to nail him like he did. I have just been wondering what you would have to be absolutely, positively legal!

The FT-8800 is a great radio. I really like being able to monitor two frequencies simultaneously, using the dual receiver circuit.

I had kinda decided that half-duplex, if that is the correct term of it, would be the best way to go. I have a Yaesu HT that can be programmed to receive on VHF and transmit on UHF, or vice versa. I figure if I am a short walk from the vehicle, I have the repeater control issued under control. I'd ID with "<my call> crossband repeater" verbally, and everybody should be happy.

If you can walk over to the crossband rig to turn it off, then you have control of it. If you give you're giving your callsign out at appropriate intervals then your ID is being given on every frequency that your radios are operating on. Just turn the crossband rig off when you're done with it and it won't be transmitting when you're not there.

Oh, and can someone please tell me where in the regs it says that a personal auxilliary or repeater station must have a key-down timer, a remote control shut-down mechanism, and an automatic repeater id message? Maybe it's there and I just don't know where?

O.k. if you are doing full duplex crossband, it looks like this

you -> input frequency to your mobile -> output on the input of the repeater

repeater -> output frequency picked up by your mobile -> mobile outputs to the output you configured for your duplex on receive

The problem is your mobile when it is relaying the repeater back to you, isn't identifying. When you transmit in, you are ID'ng for you on the repeater, but the repeater outputs on your duplex channel are not IDd and that's the issue. It's an unidentified transmission the whole time it's running.

Not sure what part of the FCC regs covers repeater ops offhand, but you are required to have a means of remote shut-down and recently they now require that you cannot solely use an input RF channel to do this. (This does refer to full time repeaters or unattended operation more accurately.)

You must have an 'out of band' alternative, a link control on another band or a telephone line you can dial in with.

This is so that if the equipment malfunctions you can stop the interference on the band remotely.

Also, due to issues with jammers tying up RF control links, that's why they added the additional stipulations.

The key-down timer, I'm not sure of. Most repeaters have a 3 minute or shorter time out timer, but I'm not sure if that is for best practices or if it is also required.

A LOT of problems occur in the NJ/NY metro area with people not understanding their gear or the band plans when they pick frequencies for personal link setups.

Problems range from people using outputs of existing repeaters as their input, creating unidentified loops between repeater networks.

People setting up 'full time' rogue repeaters that interfere with coordinated pairs.

People setting up repeaters on simplex frequencies or OSCAR sub-band frequencies.

People setting up inputs or outputs that interfere with RF link channels....the list goes on and on.

If you are anywhere near a metro area, you *must* have a full understanding of what you are doing before you bring a linked setup on the air. It's well beyond reading the manual and enabling the feature on a radio.

There is pretty aggressive enforcement with guys using commercial communications quality DF equipment to hunt sources of interference around here and people get cited fairly frequently. A lot of the repeater coordinators and control ops work in the communications field and have access to crazy amounts of high-end instrumentation so it's simple for them to track people down.

Time-out timers are not required by regulation, as such. Regulations do specify that the -control operator- ID every ten minutes, and if the repeater is not under direct control, that the repeater automatically ID every ten. So, the responsibility lies on the operator doing the talking, don't talk too long, and with the repeaters control operator. If each of those people pay attention and keep time, then there's no requirement for an "automatic" anything. So, the questions are; Is the repeater under control of an operator who is present (or at least very close)?; Does the 'repeater' even have an ID'er?; Can the ones doing the talking keep time?; and the one I think is most important, Can the @#$ 'OO' use just a little common sense in writing people up?
- 'Doc

PS - Almost got the coveted "WAS-OO" award! Still working on HI and AK. Don't think there are any 'OO's in either place...

(Commonly spoken of as the "UP the 'Wazoo'!", award. #1 is still available!)

Moleculo, yer still missing it a bit.

If you set up yer mobile to use chan A for input and chan B for output to and from your HT.

When you TX on the HT, you are ID'ng for the transmission on chan A

However when the repeater traffic comes back to you, your mobile is now sending it on chan B, not the repeater output, but the output of YOUR repeater.

If you walk away...another station on the repeater you are linked to transmits...your mobile now relays that out on whatever band you set it up for. It is now an unidentified transmission.

The reason is, on your input, it is only active when you are TXng and you are IDng as you go.

On your output, it is active any time there is traffic on the other system. You aren't IDng on that output frequency you are only heard with ID on the system you are linked to and on your input frequency.

The output of your crossband is still unidentified.

The solution is pretty simple, just set up half-duplex.....or only set up where nobody else will hear it ;-)

It's nitpicking, I agree, but this is what the deal is and why people get all bound up over crossband setups.

If it's still not clear, maybe I can diagram it. Sort of a p.i.t.a. to write it out and make it clear.