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I suppose you could do that if you really wanted to, but what's the point? You are already making your station's call sign heard on all frequencies in use to any station monitoring those frequencies. The source of the transmission is known. If you've set it up properly, anyone monitoring just one of the frequencies would never even know that you were crossband repeating and would never know that there was more than one transmitter in use at your station. Even if the FCC didn't "like" it, does anyone really think you would receive a NOV for operating in this manner? No way. The worst thing that would happen is some other ham would complain, saying "hey! you can't do it that way". Then some hams would have to petition the FCC to clarify that "station" really means "transmitter" and the FCC would sit on the request, considering it for years.

There could be a strong argument made that the personal station I described is really an uncoordinated repeater (it IS called crossband repeating, after all). However, in this scenario, the station is not under remote control, so some of the typical requirements we think of with repeaters are not applicable.

Hmm, since I am using a VX-8R with bluetooth, am I already cross band repeating?

2.4 GHz for bluetooth

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Not exactly, the bluetooth is just being used as a wireless speaker/mic. It sorta is the same thing though, if you stop and think about it. I'm sure sooner or later somebody will say this is illegal since the amateur radio service is being rebroadcast onto the public 2.4ghz unlicensed spectrum.

And I am using encryption.

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What is the effective distance of bluetooth, 32 feet? I haven't read all of the FCC rules regarding the amateur service but it seems that the crossband repeating radios would not be covered by the rules covering stations under direct control and the rules governing operating a station under automatic or remote control would apply, like traditional repeaters with their auto ID

Bluetooth distance? Good question. I'm guessing 20 or 30 feet?

If you're at station control, then it is not under automatic or remote control. Remember, we're discussing a scenario where you are close enough to walk over to the crossbander and turn it off or change frequency.

Bluetooth is using a different radio service, so ham radio rules should not apply.

Quite often, especially in simplex, I can identify different radio stations by various background sounds and other artifacts around the keying sequence. An astute observer should be able to quickly identify the repeater from your HT. At that point, how would they know you were the op for both stations? I've been quite surprised to find how far my HT signal has been picked up on even just 1/2 watt.

You are most likely correct about everything else you say. The FCC is likely to do nothing. They might issue some sort of notice if they received the right type of complaint. Any sort of formal change to the rules or case decision would really require quite a bit of gruff over the issue and probably years of some serious leaning by folks with more time on their hands than...

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If thats the distance your talking about, where you are close enough to walk over to it, it shouldn't matter if you ID using the crossbanding radio. I thought you were more along the lines of driving to a park or something, leaving a radio on in the vehicle and then going for a hike

No, not OK. You think your ID is going out with the "nearly identical" transmission. C2, I don't know what side you were taking on that point but it is a good question.

Agreed. Both need to be identified, both are going to have different operating characteristics.

Here is the catch, we are pretty sure that we have got things covered but the stations are not (and can never be) identical.

Err, right. But that is not what Moleculo's how to describes, or suggests doing.

Yes, identify on each antenna.

Err, right. I wouldn't think you would have to, unless you wanted to TX on that first antenna again. But you would want to identify whilst using the second antenna.

Ya, sounds good.

If that is the rule, then OK...

I think that each station should still be TX'ing the ID though, which sounds like it does if there is an auto-id.


I think the operator/owner should be ID'ing on each TX frequency from each transmitter. It sounds like the rules leave enough room to allow a few ways to get that done (which is part of what some of the argument has been about). Why should the operator/owner ID on each transmitter frequency? Regardless of what the official rules say (they are confusing), I think the transmissions should be identifiable if someone wanted to contact the owner (by other means) if there was a problem with one of the transmitters. So ID'ing from the HT on 440.00 and having that same transmission TX'd again from the repeater is OK, but as soon as the repeater wants to TX again on 440.0, there should be another ID I think. Unless you are sure that your HT does provide greater coverage, and the repeater operating correctly.

An example why,

Similar to the first quote above by C2, I wouldn't TX ke7vvt on my 8r, set it down, pick up a new mic and then take up a conversation on a home brew repeater with a low gain antenna (I really am brewing one) without TXing my ID again. There is no way that I would get it (the repeater) right the first time!

Moleculo's idea of dumbing down the range of the crossband repeater on the 440 side does sound like it should make the system work, especially if your pretty sure everything is working correctly (which is where other parts of argument have come from) But is it really legal? I don't know, I don't care if someone else does it, you and your station and the other person you are talking to are bound to reveal ID's at some point and you probably will be able to be contacted if something goofy is happening. I wouldn't try that suggested antenna/duplexer technique without the auto-id, but only because I know I wouldn't do it right. If you are doing it and everything is working great then kudos!

I think the Kenwood D-710 might be able to do this. We usually have an operator at that "base station" on our expeditions, so even if it doesn't auto-ID on the output back to the HT's, the operator can ID for it. Thanks a for all of the great info from all parties esp. AE7RS, Moleculo, and C2.

edit: Kenwood D710 does do cross band repeat, and it looks like it can do single band also (if you set it up right I imagine)

That is unnecessary if there is an ID @ the HT on 440.00 before the repeater repeats it again on 146.00.

Also, hopefully I didn't take anyones comments out of context when I quoted them. Especially this last quote, maybe you meant something else C2?