• You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.

President Lincoln 2 ver. 3 VS. President George overall performance requesting input...

Retro CB Guy

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2014
751
240
53
Hi folks and what I'm after is assuming both radios are in great shape and tuned similar, WHICH is the usual better OVERALL performer in your HONEST opinion please ? ? ?

When you put your vote in, please give at least a short description as to why you lean towards one or the other or maybe some folks think they are so close to really tell which is...


THANKS in advance - Retro
 

Attachments

  • President George EBAY one owner 3.JPG
    President George EBAY one owner 3.JPG
    207.6 KB · Views: 225
  • President Lincoln 2 Facebook pic nice.jpg
    President Lincoln 2 Facebook pic nice.jpg
    43.1 KB · Views: 223

What's the point?

The point is basically I want input to see which people tend to like the most ! And also I own one of these and am thinking of getting the other one, so I wanted to take a poll to see how it turns out to help me decide on that ...

Hope that's clear, Retro
 
Neither radio is worth the trouble of hooking up to an antenna and power supply.

I see, so in the same realm as these type of radios, which would you suggest to own and is worth the time, money and effort to get please ?

Thanks for your input, Retro (73's)
 
I can't speak about the Lincoln II but can offer some insight on the George as I have had two of them. They are good radios but have a couple of design and feature quirks that may be off-putting for some.

The high point of the George is it's receiver which was so amazing that even today it holds up as one of the great ones. Quiet, sensitive and the ASC somehow knows the difference between a weak signal and static so it won't sit there and 'chatter'. I repeat: When properly aligned the receiver on the George will hear a dime drop on a carpeted floor in a bowling alley 100 miles away. It's that good.

With full metering the George will let you know what's going on when. The dual-color selection is nice and the display is easy to read even in the brightest light.

While I am not generally a fan of roger beeps, this radio has a rather pleasant one. Also enjoyable is the echo, which is either on or off. The level is variable but that has to be done on the inside of the radio. Again, it's really a good feature on this rig. Enough echo to put some punch behind your voice, not enough to make you sound like a yahoo.

Plenty of internal power and the George has a front-panel RF power adjustment.

Frequency coverage is somewhat lacking if you plan on using this on the 10m band. IIRC it tops out well before the voice portion of 10m. Curious thing about the George: It was the first CB radio to use it's own internal software to make the frequency mods. Depending on the sequence entered it would operate on 40 CH US, 40 CH UK FM, or International mode which gave you everything.

In 'International' mode the dimmer switch becomes the bandswitch.

I tried many different mics on mine and never really found one better than the stock mic but YMMV. BTW, if anyone has a stock mic for a George, I'd be interested in buying it!

If the George has any one fatal flaw it would be the inability to move the frequency in less than 5 KHz increments and the clarifier (which only moves the receiver) is only good for about 2KHz. It's not much of an issue on AM but on SSB it can be annoying when trying to tune a signal. Also the knobs are kind of small and difficult to adjust in a mobile environment.

The built-in security system is a pain as it has to be re-entered every time the radio is powered on unless it hooked to a constant 12v source. I've never found anyone who can bypass this and it can be a hazard because after 3 or 4 attempts if the wrong code is entered the radio will brick and has to be sent back to President- assuming that they still support this model after so many years. Remember: they came out in the mid-90s.

I went to the George after my HR2510 was stolen. In many ways it is a superior radio to the 2510 but the lack of fine-tuning on the VFO, small knobs and that annoying security system keeps me from putting it on my personal All-Star list.

In spite of it's quirkiness I like it. They don't come up for sale very often so if this is the one you are thinking of adding, don't delay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Retro CB Guy
I heard a Linc 2 on 10 meter once. The guy should be ashamed to operate it. Worse sounding mobile I have in quite some time. And the George only able to tune in 5 and 10 khz steps, what a joke. Instead of putting roger bleeps and echo crap in these radios, why not DSP and maybe repeater offsets and PL
Rich
 
  • Like
Reactions: DainBramage
I can't speak about the Lincoln II but can offer some insight on the George as I have had two of them. They are good radios but have a couple of design and feature quirks that may be off-putting for some.

The high point of the George is it's receiver which was so amazing that even today it holds up as one of the great ones. Quiet, sensitive and the ASC somehow knows the difference between a weak signal and static so it won't sit there and 'chatter'. I repeat: When properly aligned the receiver on the George will hear a dime drop on a carpeted floor in a bowling alley 100 miles away. It's that good.

With full metering the George will let you know what's going on when. The dual-color selection is nice and the display is easy to read even in the brightest light.

While I am not generally a fan of roger beeps, this radio has a rather pleasant one. Also enjoyable is the echo, which is either on or off. The level is variable but that has to be done on the inside of the radio. Again, it's really a good feature on this rig. Enough echo to put some punch behind your voice, not enough to make you sound like a yahoo.

Plenty of internal power and the George has a front-panel RF power adjustment.

Frequency coverage is somewhat lacking if you plan on using this on the 10m band. IIRC it tops out well before the voice portion of 10m. Curious thing about the George: It was the first CB radio to use it's own internal software to make the frequency mods. Depending on the sequence entered it would operate on 40 CH US, 40 CH UK FM, or International mode which gave you everything.

In 'International' mode the dimmer switch becomes the bandswitch.

I tried many different mics on mine and never really found one better than the stock mic but YMMV. BTW, if anyone has a stock mic for a George, I'd be interested in buying it!

If the George has any one fatal flaw it would be the inability to move the frequency in less than 5 KHz increments and the clarifier (which only moves the receiver) is only good for about 2KHz. It's not much of an issue on AM but on SSB it can be annoying when trying to tune a signal. Also the knobs are kind of small and difficult to adjust in a mobile environment.

The built-in security system is a pain as it has to be re-entered every time the radio is powered on unless it hooked to a constant 12v source. I've never found anyone who can bypass this and it can be a hazard because after 3 or 4 attempts if the wrong code is entered the radio will brick and has to be sent back to President- assuming that they still support this model after so many years. Remember: they came out in the mid-90s.

I went to the George after my HR2510 was stolen. In many ways it is a superior radio to the 2510 but the lack of fine-tuning on the VFO, small knobs and that annoying security system keeps me from putting it on my personal All-Star list.

In spite of it's quirkiness I like it. They don't come up for sale very often so if this is the one you are thinking of adding, don't delay.

Thanks for the reply brother ! More of what I'm after telling an overview of how one likes or dislikes... Not just picking on a few things you don't like or nothing really valuable to add to the conversation/poll here. Very well said appriciate it.

73's - Retro
 
I heard a Linc 2 on 10 meter once. The guy should be ashamed to operate it. Worse sounding mobile I have in quite some time. And the George only able to tune in 5 and 10 khz steps, what a joke. Instead of putting roger bleeps and echo crap in these radios, why not DSP and maybe repeater offsets and PL
Rich
Lincoln 2 has offsets and tones.
Funny thing too about the Lincoln 2 sounding bad on 10 meters. They only sound bad when you tell the other operator it's a Lincoln 2. When you tell them it's a yaesu 857D they suddenly sound great. My biggest gripe with the Lincoln isn't Roger beeps and echo chambers they have "off " buttons but rather the frequency layout.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Retro CB Guy
Every single CB currently being manufactured and manufactured in the past can manage 12dB SINAD or more at -120dBm. Why is that important? Well it so happens that -120dBm is about the same level as galactic noise on the 11m band (actually its a couple of dBm lower than the noise floor) so no matter where you are on planet earth then if you're running an antenna with at least unity gain (0dBi), the noise floor will be higher than -120dBm. 12dB SINAD is the signal to noise level where speech is perfectly intelligible and on FM would be clear with just a slight hint of white noise behind it.

The only time it matters how well a radio hears below -120dBm matters is if you're using a crappy antenna which is so bad it can't even manage unity gain and you should be concentrating on improving your antenna system and not trying to find the holy grail of a radio with a receiver that can compensate for the loss. However consider that even the best HF amateur radios can only hear around 10dB below that level without pre-amps. My Flex 6500 is around -128dBm from memory but its not an issue because the noise floor is always higher.

The commonly heard claim of "new radios don't outperform old favourites" doesn't pass scrutiny once you hook them up to a proper radio tester and start doing some measuring and the claims are usually based on S meter readings from CBs which have far from linear S meters, which are very rarely properly calibrated and usually done by Bob listening to Fred a few miles away and comparing what he gets to Fred or even worse by Bob listening to Gunter in Germany via skip. Any judgements based on S meter readings not only from one make to another but from one identical radio to the next is pointless with CBs. Old radios sell better than new ones because people believe urban legend about performance like all the crap that's banded about around CB vertical antennas when the reality is that for the vast majority of cases where there's a large difference its pretty much always something to do with the antenna installation from one place to another that shows up the large differences claimed.

I would like to say that like most, if not all on here who have been into CB/amateur radio for any length of time I've burned a lot of money chasing the holy grail of a CB/amateur radio that can hear stuff no other one can, mostly because of the antennas I was running. As a ham I went through several different radios before realising there is no such thing as a magical radio that can hear stuff none of the others can.

Eventually partly through researching about noise and from getting a Marconi 2955 and shoving loads of radios on it and doing testing I finally saw the light and that sensitivity is not the thing you should be basing purchase of a new radio on as they are all more than capable of hearing well below the noise floor. Even the Commtron CB40F which had a serious reputation in the UK of being completely and utterly deaf in the 80s turned out not to be when I put one on the 2955. It easily managed 12dB SINAD at -120dBm and its reputation was based entirely around the fact that it was impossible to calibrate the S meter properly and even wide open with the pot for the S meter the universal CB S9 level of 100uV would only get you a S7. Therefore everyone thought they were deaf because they had a seriously stingy S meter.

Same happens nowadays, people basing opinion on S meters. I've seen plenty of people say the Grant 2 and Lincoln 2 have poor ears yet I've watched plenty of m0ogy's videos on Youtube where his Grant 2 and Lincoln 2 are hearing stations quite clearly but showing S0 on the meter. I'd say it was poor S meter calibration on those two radios rather than the receiver not being sensitive enough.

In fact when you look at amateur radio the manufacturers know this is the case. IARU/Collins standard is 6dB per S point. Current generations, especially Icom and Yaesu, have S meters that tend to be calibrated at a S point = 3dB up to S9 then 6dB per S point above S9 so the needle swings more and keeps the owner happy. This makes a radio like my TS480 appear deaf in comparison as the S meter isn't calibrated like that and putting a -100dBm signal into my TS480 would result in signal a few S points down from the FT950 I had.

Radios should be selected primarily on two things, neither of which have anything to do with sensitivity:


1) Ergonomics. If the screen is too small to see, the controls too fiddly to use (Ranger 2950 putting the mike socket below the channel selector for example) and the layout or menu layout makes no sense (Yaesu FT857/897) to you then you're not going to enjoy using it no matter how good it is.

2) Selectivity - the ability to hear weak signals next to strong ones.
 
Last edited:
Every single CB currently being manufactured and manufactured in the past can manage 12dB SINAD or more at -120dBm. Why is that important? Well it so happens that -120dBm is about the same level as galactic noise on the 11m band (actually its a couple of dBm lower than the noise floor) so no matter where you are on planet earth then if you're running an antenna with at least unity gain (0dBi), the noise floor will be higher than -120dBm. 12dB SINAD is the signal to noise level where speech is perfectly intelligible and on FM would be clear with just a slight hint of white noise behind it.

The only time it matters how well a radio hears below -120dBm matters is if you're using a crappy antenna which is so bad it can't even manage unity gain and you should be concentrating on improving your antenna system and not trying to find the holy grail of a radio with a receiver that can compensate for the loss. However consider that even the best HF amateur radios can only hear around 10dB below that level without pre-amps. My Flex 6500 is around -128dBm from memory but its not an issue because the noise floor is always higher.

The commonly heard claim of "new radios don't outperform old favourites" doesn't pass scrutiny once you hook them up to a proper radio tester and start doing some measuring and the claims are usually based on S meter readings from CBs which have far from linear S meters, which are very rarely properly calibrated and usually done by Bob listening to Fred a few miles away and comparing what he gets to Fred or even worse by Bob listening to Gunter in Germany via skip. Any judgements based on S meter readings not only from one make to another but from one identical radio to the next is pointless with CBs. Old radios sell better than new ones because people believe urban legend about performance like all the crap that's banded about around CB vertical antennas when the reality is that for the vast majority of cases where there's a large difference its pretty much always something to do with the antenna installation from one place to another that shows up the large differences claimed.

I would like to say that like most, if not all on here who have been into CB/amateur radio for any length of time I've burned a lot of money chasing the holy grail of a CB/amateur radio that can hear stuff no other one can, mostly because of the antennas I was running. As a ham I went through several different radios before realising there is no such thing as a magical radio that can hear stuff none of the others can.

Eventually partly through researching about noise and from getting a Marconi 2955 and shoving loads of radios on it and doing testing I finally saw the light and that sensitivity is not the thing you should be basing purchase of a new radio on as they are all more than capable of hearing well below the noise floor. Even the Commtron CB40F which had a serious reputation in the UK of being completely and utterly deaf in the 80s turned out not to be when I put one on the 2955. It easily managed 12dB SINAD at -120dBm and its reputation was based entirely around the fact that it was impossible to calibrate the S meter properly and even wide open with the pot for the S meter the universal CB S9 level of 100uV would only get you a S7. Therefore everyone thought they were deaf because they had a seriously stingy S meter.

Same happens nowadays, people basing opinion on S meters. I've seen plenty of people say the Grant 2 and Lincoln 2 have poor ears yet I've watched plenty of m0ogy's videos on Youtube where his Grant 2 and Lincoln 2 are hearing stations quite clearly but showing S0 on the meter. I'd say it was poor S meter calibration on those two radios rather than the receiver not being sensitive enough.

In fact when you look at amateur radio the manufacturers know this is the case. IARU/Collins standard is 6dB per S point. Current generations, especially Icom and Yaesu, have S meters that tend to be calibrated at a S point = 3dB up to S9 then 6dB per S point above S9 so the needle swings more and keeps the owner happy. This makes a radio like my TS480 appear deaf in comparison as the S meter isn't calibrated like that and putting a -100dBm signal into my TS480 would result in signal a few S points down from the FT950 I had.

Radios should be selected primarily on two things, neither of which have anything to do with sensitivity:


1) Ergonomics. If the screen is too small to see, the controls too fiddly to use (Ranger 2950 putting the mike socket below the channel selector for example) and the layout or menu layout makes no sense (Yaesu FT857/897) to you then you're not going to enjoy using it no matter how good it is.

2) Selectivity - the ability to hear weak signals next to strong ones.

Hi, WOW very well said and I do agree! I like unique radios that fit a certain niche too but also they must appeal to me as well as make sense and feel right to operate... And some recievers or receive in general are a bit too harsh on some radios and I don't care for that so much either. Already some rigs I have are such a pleasant experience to listen to that I don't mind just sitting there listening for any length of time and not saying a word transmit wise ! It does vary from radio to radio but in the end if we like it having spent money on it with it being a pleasure to use, then money well spent and our hobby is at it's peak. Experimenting is part of it depending on how long one has been in this hobby and myself included. I've been into this hobby since the CB boom era in the 70's.

Thanks for your valuable insight bro, Retro says 73's all the best to ya !
 
Now to add another set of info to this post... I do already have the President George and like it quite a bit ! I just bought a mint like new with box and everything and enhanced in all the ways I enjoy my rigs upgraded President Lincoln 2 version 3 and it's due to arrive this week... So I'll update with some impressions and thoughts appropiately when I can to add to this post. I sure appriciate everyones input so far !

73's - Retro
 
M0GVC Good input. I haven't logged into this forum for probably a year. Gotta be honest, I got a bit tired of hearing people mouth off about a certain radio being a turd, or not worth hooking up to an antenna. It's funny, I hook up a stock Cobra 29 and say "break", and somebody says "go ahead, break". Hmmmm. It worked. I mean, isn't that the whole goal? Both parties hearing each other. I guess if it help make up for the size of your #%€£~! Or just makes you feel better because you were ignored as a child, by all means, spout off. I used the PLII Ver 3 for a year on my bench. It worked flawlessly. The performance was better than my 2950. Of course, if you're having "poor performance" issues, it's either time for a new radio guy, or Viagra.

Wow. First thread I've read in a year and it seems like nothing has changed here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Retro CB Guy
Hey RetroCbGuy

I just had a discussion with somebody on a Facebook forum about this same topic inly it was a PL2 vs a 99v2. He got the PL2 in today. Curious how "both" you guys like it. Post back.

PS: just ordered a YetiCom Optima from the dealer today. I like to change radios either in car or shop every 3 months. I had the PL2 for a year so I must have like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Retro CB Guy
I had a brand new 99v2 and it was junk. Not knocking all 99v2's just the one I had. QC must have been absent the day mine was built. President Lincoln 2 is a much better radio than the 99v2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Retro CB Guy

dxChat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • @ Wildcat27:
    Hello I have a old school 2950 receives great on all modes and transmits great on AM but no transmit on SSB. Does anyone have any idea?
  • @ ButtFuzz:
    Good evening from Sunny Salem! What’s shaking?
  • dxBot:
    63Sprint has left the room.
  • dxBot:
    kennyjames 0151 has left the room.