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Help with 858 Washington

These parts are made to resonate at three basic ranges of frequency in a 40-channel or 10-meter radio.

The channel frequency at 27 MHz.

The high IF frequency at 7.8 or 10.695 MHz.

The local-oscillator (LO) frequency at 35 MHz (Uniden) or 16 MHz (RCI).

IF transformers meant for the 455 kHz AM IF frequency are built differently and won't have the hollow threaded coil form with the skinny threaded slug. Those are the ones with the larger adjustment hole and a screw slot visible on top. Haven't found myself needing to try this trick on those.

The internal cap for a 35 MHz coil is probably under 10 pf. For a 27 MHz circuit, under 20 pf, more or less.

The 10.695 MHz IF transformers are probably closer to 30pf, and 7.8 MHz parts a bit more.

It's like asking how many turns of wire are inside that metal can. It's just not documented anywhere that you or I can get access.

The schematic diagrams would sometimes show that internal capacitor value in the bad old days of tube-type radios, but usually not. The schemo for a solid-state radio will usually show the capacitor inside the dotted lines around the RF/IF coil, and where it's connected inside but without any description of the part's capacitance value.

It's a cut-and try sort of thing. If your "patch" trimmer cap adjusts all the way to maximum and won't resonate, it's too small.

I'm accustomed to setting the slug to the depth inside the coil core where I'm used to seeing it, then setting the trimmer cap for a peak. Sometimes, moving the tuning slug's peak up or down by tweaking the trimmer cap will improve the signal level.

Your mileage may vary.

And if you're working on a 23-channel radio that combines multiple crystal frequencies to select the channel, it can get pretty squirrelly.

73
 
put new VR's in the radio. you can buy the ones used in all other new radios and just tweak the legs to fit the holes. a used one may be just like the one you pulled out.
 
good deal, not sure why you are having such a low out put on the radio and bias problems.
Nomad has some good info for you to look at.
 
Generally, if the bias adjustment potentiometer is good and you can't get the bias current down, that usually means that the driver or final is self oscillating, due to a mistune/alignment issue or a bad coupling capacitor. It's not always like this, but it's usually the case.

To help with setting the bias, here's a couple tips:
Set the radio to ch. 19 or ch. 20.
Set mode to USB.
Make sure your mic gain is fully counterclockwise.
Make sure your carrier balance is properly adjusted. Meaning, you have absolutely NO carrier on USB or LSB. The adjustment for this is VR4.
Mark where CT7 is set, and adjust this trimmer cap 1/2 of a turn. This is your SSB ALC (power output). Turning it 1/2 of a turn will "shut down" any potential SSB output.

Now you can adjust your driver and final bias current. I set the driver current at 25mA, final current at 50mA.

Once this is done, and everything is reconnected, adjust CT7 back to it's previous position, so you'll have SSB output again. :)



Also, as long as you're not trying to wring every last watt out of the radio, you can perform a MOSFET final mod and it will not hurt the radio. The stock power supply handles it fine, and so does the audio IC. But it's IDEAL to just put in the standard bi-polar transistors. I only did the MOSFET conversions as an alternative method to keep the old radios alive, in the event that bi-polar transistor supply dries up and they become difficult to obtain.

Oh, on L37.... remove that small disc capacitor across it. You'll have to retune L37 to get your power output back to where it should be, but that doesn't belong there. Wouldn't actually hurt (if you're back to stock 40 channels) to undo the broadband mod on L37 and reconnect the traces back to the original posts.


~Cheers~
 
Last edited:
https://www.mouser.com/Bourns/Passi...er-Resistors-Through-Hole/_/N-9q0yt?P=1z0zlsd

If I ever take an open frame potentiometer out I never (well hardly ever) replace it with the same ...

Carrier balance, CT7, Mic Gain are all great tips.
The repair and restoration of the traces under L37 we already talked about.
The disc ceramic across that tuned circuit just confuses me.
Unless there is an open in the transformer I don't see a purpose.
Actually my brain simply can not model it at all .
I've been avoiding a repair in that area for some time that if prodded a bit I can get to. The details of L37 have been a question marl for some time. Although the details of some of the TOKO 10-K transformers surfaced a few years ago and a UK experimenter detailed a few others, L37 is a custom , proprietary lump. The reason I need to get back to it is ......

https://www.worldwidedx.com/threads...ing-frequency-mixes-without-the-panda.220999/

I'm going to either have to rewind it to resonate elsewhere or wind toroids with a trimmer much like CT7 across them for tuning.

It's not like, _399, http://unit399.wixsite.com/858ssb, Nomad , Robb, Gerhard (Mauer) http://funkservice.at/cb-radio.htm, The ghost of Carl Motsinger http://web.archive.org/web/20050225132650/http://www.n9efj.net/didthat.html , N9EFJ or Mac from circuitdomain.com and myself have ever been in the same room together or even in conference call but It's reasonably safe to say that we (sry if I'm leaving any out) never seem to have needed or found or took the time to find or no one hit us over the head with or ...
...the construction details of L37

So more than thirty years on one of us lazy old bastiches will get to it :) It seems to be surfacing more an more as a botched modification rather than a failure. The only time I saw it as a failure was a lightening strike or an inept tech applying DC in the wrong place.

One last thing. If you or anyone gets the idea that we like this chassis (uPD858) you're right. If you want to thank us share the information freely .

Misfit , if you need an ear I'm not that hard to find ...
 
Thanks guys.

With the exception of turning down CT7, that was the exact method and procedure I attempted. (It works fine for the new 2166 driver). Mic gain was at zero, with good carrier balance (no needle movement on USB/LSB keyup).
I will go back and turn down CT7 and try again.

As for L37, I believe everyone's suspicions about it are appropriate.

As far as removing the cap and restoring it to stock...it simply will not work in ANY other configuration.
I removed the orange and black hack wire jumpers and neatened it up with solder and a 2-3mm radial lead..BUT...
removing the cap kills all transmit power and/or restoring the contacts on the left side to factory (half "unbroadbanding it") also kills all output power.
The only way I get any output whatsoever is with L37 with the cap in place and the contacts as represented electrically (not mechanically) in my original picture.
It seems that it is half of a broadband mod, plus the cap...and that's the only way it will transmit.
There's lots if information in your post that I will have to check out, Kopcicle- to understand what it all means.
Again, admittedly, I am not the smartest guy around, but willing to try. I would love to get this radio to where you guys would say it's satisfactory.

At this point, I would love to hear what you think:
If I were unable to get a good bias with the 1969 (as I suspect) and I attempt the mosfet conversion, would the very process of replacing the final and rebuilding the biasing circuitry be an acceptable workaround, or, would the mosfet simply also be suffering from "self oscillating"..and if so, how much of an issue would that be?

I am fine with performance as it is, but I am spooked by this final bias issue which, if I am interpreting it correctly, is indicative of a mistuning issue that may be impossible to solve without a new coil at L37..

Your thoughts would mean a lot and will guide me where to go next; thanks.
 
..one further review

I'm just kinda hacking my through this w/o the schematic in front of me. The only reason I can see for the disc ceramic across L37 is an open in L37. I don't have a parts chassis other than my Frankenstein 858 and the test bed for the monoband HF rig.
If anyone wants to donate a parts radio (board intact but knobs missing, covers missing, speaker plate missing, all else intact) I'll detail L37 and the rest as well as supplying the radio back to the kind victim/donor in some shoddy state of repair.

I've repaired obvious faults in TOKO 10-K and like transformers. I've even rewound the notorious L41 in the TS-830S. I'm no stranger to micro surgery.

I in no way suggest this to or for a novice in micro-stupidity

Not creating further damage in disassembly
Maintaining clockwise and or counterclockwise winding orientation.
Replacing micro capacitors.
Accurately measuring wire gages under #30
Turns count.
Center tap offset.
Correct tuning slug material.
correct solvents to release glued windings intact.
test equipment to "sweep" the coil when finished.

Not a job for a hammer mechanic.

My favorite mobile is a former lightening strike victim. I must have 40-50 hours in its repair. There really isn't much in it that has not been replaced, modified, adjusted, or painfully rewound . Still the one area I haven't been is L37

I know a few places to look locally where a junque 858 may be found. I'll report back when able.
 
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I didn't get a chance to retry biasing last night.
Life happens, but I will get my shaking hands back in there in the coming days and report back.
My intuition tells me I'll be unable to get it right.
But I'm gonna try!
 
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Misfit,

Do this for me when you can. Remove all the jumpers on the "hacked up" side of L37, and check continuity between the 3 posts. Check bottom leg to middle leg, middle leg to top leg, and then check bottom leg to top leg. These should all show continuity on a multimeter. If any of these do not check, then L37 is bad and has to be replaced. I'm with Kopcicle on this one, there is a possibility that L37 has gone open for whatever reason, and the 82pF cap across it is "completing the circuit". I don't have hardly any radios anymore for parts, but I can check to see if I have an extra L37 laying around... if I have one, I can send it to you.

~Cheers~
 
Misfit,

Do this for me when you can. Remove all the jumpers on the "hacked up" side of L37, and check continuity between the 3 posts. Check bottom leg to middle leg, middle leg to top leg, and then check bottom leg to top leg. These should all show continuity on a multimeter. If any of these do not check, then L37 is bad and has to be replaced. I'm with Kopcicle on this one, there is a possibility that L37 has gone open for whatever reason, and the 82pF cap across it is "completing the circuit". I don't have hardly any radios anymore for parts, but I can check to see if I have an extra L37 laying around... if I have one, I can send it to you.

~Cheers~
Misfit and I went over this off forum , If you find L37 , send it :-/
 
Misfit,

Do this for me when you can. Remove all the jumpers on the "hacked up" side of L37, and check continuity between the 3 posts. Check bottom leg to middle leg, middle leg to top leg, and then check bottom leg to top leg. These should all show continuity on a multimeter. If any of these do not check, then L37 is bad and has to be replaced. I'm with Kopcicle on this one, there is a possibility that L37 has gone open for whatever reason, and the 82pF cap across it is "completing the circuit".

I will do just that!
Thanks again everyone for your patience, time and energy investment in this thread.
As I have told 399 and Kopcicle, I deeply appreciate it. I also realize it's an undeserved kindness that I will never be able to repay.
I sure picked a challenging radio to cut my teeth on. For someone as limited myself, this is proving to be quite an experience.
I plan on opening it up again this weekend to attempt to bias the final and check L37.
 
I just checked and I was not able to locate an extra L37. However, I do have a friend that has a couple parts radios, he may have an extra D858 board laying around somewhere. I will check with him and report back when I can.


~Cheers~
 

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