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Wilson "Ground plane kits" beneficial or not?

None of what what said is true.... Ground plane is a metal surface that is placed below the coil causing the signal to go up to atmosphere. Causing better receive and transmit.... A car roof is a great ground plane. Ground planes are ment for big truck mirror mounts and other mounts where the coil is placed up high away from a large flat surface

close but not quite right.

a GP does not "cause the signal to go up in the atmosphere", the radiation angle with or without a GP is the same.

A vehicle is not a ground plane for an HF antenna. Rather, it acts like a capacitor between the antenna, and the surface under the vehicle in question. That surface, whatever it is, forms the actual ground plane.

I don't think GPs have any effect on receive (except under certain multi-path conditions)
 
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those "ground planes" causes an antenna to put out spurious harmonics,,,,which gives false readings in swrs and power output,,, seen it many times just makes you think it is getting out better, but not really,,, check with a spectrum analyzer and can see all the harmonic spurs....

(n)(n)(n)(n)(n)(n)(n)(n)

A ground plane does all that???

Except lets call it WHAT IT REALLY IS

A counterpoise per say so you have a complete antenna system and the shield of your coax is not the other half of your antenna.

On mobile installations depending on where you mount your antenna the vehicle is the ground plane AKA counterpoise.

On base installations such as an A99 or I2K type antenna the ground plane kit does held prevent cmc caused by the coax shield being used as a counterpoise.

Google is a GREAT tool many sites have antenna theory, and if all else fails purchase an ARRL antenna handbook.
 
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those "ground planes" causes an antenna to put out spurious harmonics,,,,which gives false readings in swrs and power output,,, seen it many times just makes you think it is getting out better, but not really,,, check with a spectrum analyzer and can see all the harmonic spurs....

The antenna is a dumb device, it attempts to transmit whatever signal it gets. If the antenna gets spurious emissions and/or harmonics sent to it through the feedline it attempts to transmit them. The cause for such emissions is not the antenna system, or any part of it.

If you have a problem with harmonics and spurious emissions you need to fix the source of the problem, not blame the antenna, or some part thereof (even if the part is pure snake oil).


The DB
 
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those "ground planes" causes an antenna to put out spurious harmonics,,,,which gives false readings in swrs and power output,,, seen it many times just makes you think it is getting out better, but not really,,, check with a spectrum analyzer and can see all the harmonic spurs....

Ummmm.......I mean........errrrrrr......WOW! Talk about not understanding a few things. Antennas do not put out spurs or harmonics for one thing. Transmitters do. The rest I'll just leave alone. No sense in trying to point out ALL the errors.
 
i might be wrong then,but experimenting on some whips and add ons with out using traps spurs were everywhere up and down the spectrum,,,, took them out and spurs disappeared,,, have tried the ground plane deals both 3 and 6 elements, and the loops that mount half way up the antenna,,, all we could see was snake oil about gain and power output,,,
 
I maybe wrong but I thought the antenna could only transmit and amplify what is in the outgoing signal..so the harmonics have to be in the outgoing signal. usually that is from a radio out of tune not the antenna out of tune..maybe im off base but that is what i have learned
 
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The antenna can only transmit the signal fed to it. That being said, different antennas will transmit different frequencies differently. Using base antennas as an example, a naturally widebanded antenna, such as the a99 or imax, are less picky of the out of band signals they receive and are more likely to transmit said signals. Compare this to a narrower banded antenna, say the Maco v5/8, which has a much narrower bandwidth, will reject more of these signals, effectively sending them back up the feedline as reflected power. In this case, the antenna is acting much like a filter of sorts.

Using the above antennas as further examples, the a99/imax antennas work on the nearby ham bands while it is tuned for the CB band while the Maco will do nothing of the sort as its natural bandwidth might get you to the 10 meter ham band. Which one of these antennas would you expect to transmit more harmonics and spurious emissions?

If this so called ground plane device is causing the antenna to radiate these signals it would normally otherwise reject, that is a sign that it is changing the properties of the antenna as a whole. Even if it were made by the manufacturer of the antenna, I wouldn't trust it on that basis alone.

All this being said, if you are getting harmonics and spurious emissions with or without the device installed, you should figure out what is causing them and get it fixed. Those harmonics and spurious emissions are a waste of the power available for you to transmit, and quite possibly harmful interference to someone else.


The DB
 
I use a ground plane kit on a wilson trucker 2000 on my conversion van. I saw a one hundred watt difference in output when I put in on.

Stump31

OK,I have been doing radio since 1965 & I have never seen a ground plane kit increase the output of any radio or amplifier??? I would say you had some other issue because a ground plane has no way in increasing output power. I will be honest,when I read your comment I actually Laughed. I would love to see someone show me where or how it is possible that a ground plane could increase or even decrease the output power. I will be awaiting the explanation.

SIX-SHOOTER
 
OK,I have been doing radio since 1965 & I have never seen a ground plane kit increase the output of any radio or amplifier??? I would say you had some other issue because a ground plane has no way in increasing output power. I will be honest,when I read your comment I actually Laughed. I would love to see someone show me where or how it is possible that a ground plane could increase or even decrease the output power. I will be awaiting the explanation.

SIX-SHOOTER

I think it was meant as a joke, at least that’s how I read it...
 
I take it this is the device in question?

s-l500.jpg


I was having problems with antennas on top of my toy hauler. Looked into this mysterious device that claims to improve the antenna.

Through study of "Reflections ~ by Walter Maxwell" I found that the radials are not actually long enough. Radials need to be at least length of antenna. Not physical length but wavelength to increase performance. If you have a 1/4 wavelength antenna the radiators need to be at that same length for practical purposes. More radiators the better. It is possible to try to use more radiators at shorter length to improve GP effectiveness.

Lets say you have limited space radially, add more to increase surface area?

Back to the roof of toy hauler which is aluminum which is really a poor conductor. I fabricated a radial system out of 1" carbon steel box tubing. A much better conductor for the purpose. I made sure that the hub made contact with the shield side of coax. meaning I placed the isolation bushing on top of the hub so the actual antenna was not conducting with the GP radials. Length of radials was 4', with 4 radials. Result was not favorable enough to notice. Then installed 8 more radials out of heli arc welding wire or tig wire. Not much better. By extending the 1" box tubing radials out to 1/4 wave length or more only then did I see improvement.

After all that work, it looked like something out of H.G. Wells ~ War of the Worlds had roosted atop my camper. Hideous to say. It was not practical solution to my needs. Took up a lot of real estate, and could not be transportable, which was the goal.

If you research adding radials to the base of towers you will find that TV stations require 160 radials or more. Why? Counterpoise. You need surface area of good conducting materials for good counterpoise. That's why the center of your roof on vehicles is the best spot for Omni directional Antennas.

That neat looking thingy to attach to your antenna is not effective. Might look cool and boast improvement but that is erroneous information. It rates right up there with the StarGunn Antenna. Which is not practical or mathematically correct in antenna. You have to build a mathematically correct antenna to match the wavelength you will be operating on. Then tune the darn thing.

Respectfully,

Redbeard
 
Through study of "Reflections ~ by Walter Maxwell" I found that the radials are not actually long enough. Radials need to be at least length of antenna. Not physical length but wavelength to increase performance. If you have a 1/4 wavelength antenna the radiators need to be at that same length for practical purposes. More radiators the better. It is possible to try to use more radiators at shorter length to improve GP effectiveness.

I love that PDF Redbeard, thanks again for posting it, very good info and discusses lots of misconceptions regarding antennas and SWR. I have a Sirio 2016 base antenna that's aluminum and is 18-feet tall, placed on top of a 25-foot telescoping mast, and it has 16 radials. It had good reviews on e-ham.net so I purchased it, seems to be working really good, not sure if the radials are doing much but I think it looks bad ass! I think mobile installation is a different story when it comes to ground plane kits which are most likely insufficient. The device in question (at least the one I have) is below. Similar to the other but has 2 extra radials. Below that is my base antenna. When it gets nicer out I'll try to raise it few more feet so it completely clears the top of the roof.

WAK-1.jpg

IEPVlaS.jpg
 
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