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ARRL new posting on BPL

Discussion in 'FCC Activity' started by Jay in the Mojave, Feb 12, 2005.

  1. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    Hello All:



    Here is more info on Broad Band over Power lines. A method of using the existing power lines to transmit digital data. Which will interfere with HF and some VHF Radio Services.



    The ARRL has a new posting on the subject.



    www.hamwave.com/cgi-bin/i...ews&id=626



    Jay in the Mojave <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon44.gif ALT=":44">


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  2. mack43

    mack43 Guest

    surely they won't let this happen becasue won't this affect emergency responce vehicles also?


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  3. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    Hello Highlander 821:



    Well lets hope that doesn't happen.



    A few things I haven't heard anyone talk about yet is having a filter for the BPL Interference, and the power grid system cost to maintain the BPL System vs data transmission reliability.



    I am sure a filter that would install between the radio and speaker could be made to significantly reduce the BPL Noise Interference. Could put a speaker in a neat cabinit, with a digital clock. Hehehehe



    Or as the Digital DSP systems in receivers are prefected even more, the BPL may be not be a problem.



    But as I have talked about in another thread here, the BPL is old technology and not the not set up for data transmission. Again the installation and maintenance costs to keep a power grid system working with BPL may not be fully realized by the pwer companies.



    Another thing I am intrested in is the industrial computer Industry views on the BPL capability as compard to other data transmission methods. Would a Computer Company use BPL say for a chain of banks to transfere bank informanation all day long?? Or a goverment angcy use BPL? Or the Deparment of Motor Vehicles?



    I would think that BPL has to prove it self first before major industrial cunstomers would be attracted. I don't think it would be profitable to just serve personal home internet customers.



    Jay in the Mojave <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon44.gif ALT=":44">


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  4. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    Hello All:



    Another Blurb on BPL from the ARRL



    See the section:

    ==>ARRL STAFFER TESTIFIES ON BPL AT CALIFORNIA HEARING



    www.hamwave.com/cgi-bin/i...ews&id=636



    Jay in the Mojave <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon44.gif ALT=":44">


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  5. jdchet

    jdchet Active Member

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    Don't anyone here take this BPL stuff lightly!<img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon22.gif ALT=":22"> This is not a bunch of Ham Radio sissies whining about nothing!<img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon43.gif ALT=":43"> BPL causes considerable interference to 11 meter communications too , rendering any equipment you have near a BPL site practically useless!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:">



    JD<img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon21.gif ALT=":21"> <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon53.gif ALT=":53">


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  6. jdchet

    jdchet Active Member

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    A Keydown near a BPL site would be cool!<img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/ROFLOL.gif ALT=":LOL">

    <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon24.gif ALT=":lmao"> <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/wav.gif ALT=":wav">



    JD<img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon53.gif ALT=":53"> <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon21.gif ALT=":21"> <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon60.gif ALT=":60">


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  7. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    Hello CW Morse:



    Great points made there.



    I am working to find a power company engineer that will be able to tell me the engineering needed, and power system grid checks needed to start a BPL System.



    The inputs I am hearing now is the power system grids take a certain amount of maintenance. And this maintenance is in two categories.



    1 Routine Maintenance, and 2 Failure repair maintenance.



    The BPL will add more maintenance to the power grid system.

    And this BPL maintenance will be costly in equipment and training, and will probably add more man power to the maintenance crews. More over head costs for the bean counters and corporate money guys.



    With power company bean counters and incoming paper clip type of office chart makers, and desk fliers, BPL has a dime further.



    Jay in the Mojave



    www.a1antennas.com <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon44.gif ALT=":44">


    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p067.ezboard.com/bworldwidecbradioclub.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jayinthemojave>Jay in the Mojave</A> at: 3/17/05 5:22 pm
     
  8. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    Hello Nomaderadio:



    OH REALLY! Hehehehhehe and the hits just keep on coming!!!



    Great info there. Ok so now they need a modem, ground rod, and of course repeaters every 1/2 mile or so.



    I can't wait to hear when a high voltage isolation unit fails and sends high voltages into someones home. This will be a really bad thing, and I hope no one is hurt.



    And there data transmissions are freely being radiated into the air where the hackers will have a ball.



    This really puts the light on other data transmission systems.



    I talked about this before. Any time a existing system is modified to do something other that it was designed for, will take years to develop and work the bugs out. And a power grid system is no different.



    So from these facts BPL doesn't look to promising.



    Jay in the Mojave <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon44.gif ALT=":44">


    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p067.ezboard.com/bworldwidecbradioclub.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jayinthemojave>Jay in the Mojave</A> at: 3/18/05 2:43 pm
     
  9. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    Hello Cyclops 1970:



    I am gonna disagree with you here while trying not to be disagreeable.



    Your never going to get the CB Radio service to clean up, as compared to the Amateur Radio Service, as if the Amateur Radio Service has a clean slate. I listen in on 80 40 and 20 all the time.



    The death of ham radio will not be a third rate data system that radiates data transmissions over the power lines it will be its unfriendly and snotty ways.



    I can get a big rise out of the boys on the local 2 meter repeater with just a "Ten-4" or two. Hehehehehehehhehehe



    Jay in the Mojave <img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/posticon44.gif ALT=":44">


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  10. Peddler 356

    Peddler 356 Guest

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The death of ham radio will not be a third rate data system that radiates data transmissions over the power lines it will be its unfriendly and snotty ways.<hr></blockquote>



    Gotta luv it...<img src=http://www.wwdx.org/smilies/ROFLOL.gif ALT=":LOL">


    [​IMG]

    Big Dog

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  11. Peddler 356

    Peddler 356 Guest

    I feel the same way about some of the CBers. We are a different breed and maybe I'm in the middle between the ever so righteous Ham and the $1.95 CBer and some and I said S O M E of the truckers that don't know how to control an echo or a keydown artist that's splattering 6 counties.



    I enjoy CBing and so-called freebanding and I do it without a licience and without being snubbed by the old line General ticket holders.



    I also have enough self-control that I can use the off button on my radio if I don't like what I hear and I don't go to ARRL or QRZ and report everything I see, hear or read....or making an embarrassment out of myself.










    [​IMG]

    Big Dog

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  12. Jay in the Mojave

    Jay in the Mojave Active Member

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    HELLO ALL, MORE GREAT NEWS:

    As you know BPL (Broadband over Power Lines, that interferes with HF Radio Communications, including the CB Band) has been fought by the ARRL, and maybe others.

    BPL is a method for transferring data over the power lines. The problem is that it radiates some RF Energy and will interfere with HF Radio Communications.

    There is a neat article in the July 2005 (page 50) QST Magazine that talks about the BPL issues. It’s called "How Wireless Will Save Wireless from BPL” Without spoiling it for you, it basically says that the BPL technology is crap and old outdated crap at that.

    There are also good wed sites on the BPL issues, like:
    www.arrl.org/bpl/

    Also on page 69 of the July 05 QST the ARRL has an article called:
    "US House Resolution Calls on FCC to Evaluate BPL Interference, Review Rules"

    So if your around a HRO or AES ham radio store pick up a July 05 copy of QST Magazine, good reading!

    This has all been said before, but needs to repeat:
    When ever a large power grid system or any other specifically designed system is modified or is used differently than what is was designed for problems will surface. It is possible that the power grid systems used to supply your house and business with electrical power may require power grid system modifications that are too costly to support the BPL Systems.

    Also not mentioned by any of the others on the BPL issues, is that there will be a power grid system maintenance cost factor that the power grid companies will have to pay for to keep both the power grid system working and the BPL data transmission working.

    One observation in industry is that system designs are at times made and planned without the maintenance factors being figured in correctly and accurately. At times a simple inaccurate Guss-Ta-Mit is projected by the designers who have no real idea or handle on the maintenance costs. This is a major mistake repeated over and over. And is a good indication that the ones pushing BPL have not done all their homework, in more ways than one.

    Jay in the Mojave

    Kreedentials:
    Rock n Roll fan, also like C&W music 2
    Owner 1977 Ford F250 4x4, with worlds loudest PA System, its a riot on antique car night at the local drive in Restaurant
    Paid Member of Mojave Desert Radio Association, 9 bucks
    5 Kollage credits, 3 for passing the class, 2 for leaving early
    Amateur, CB, Scanner, and Shortwave Radio listin enthusiasts
     
  13. Hc714

    Hc714 Active Member

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    http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/19/technology/bpl/?cnn=yes

    Radio operators worry

    Short wave radio operators have opposed the technology, saying it can interfere with radio waves. They also have said that when certain short wave frequencies are used it can interfere with Internet access in nearby homes.

    In order to address these concerns, the new FCC rules establish excluded frequency bands that BPL must avoid to protect aeronautical and aircraft communications. Exclusion zones were also established in locations close to sensitive operations like coast guard stations.

    Manassas has also dealt with problems posed to hobbyists by "notching" or removing the frequencies used by short wave radio users.

    "The SEC announcement is a win-win for radio operators, since it puts enough restrictions and controls to make sure radio hobbyists are protected. But it's not so restrictive that BPL can't provide high-speed Internet access to customers," said Manassas Utilities Department director Allen Todd.

    Earlier in the month, HomePlug addressed this problem, unveiling its standard BPL networking technology that allows enough bandwidth to provide efficient BPL operations, but does not interfere with ham radio operators.
     

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