Digital voice for HAM radio

[KB9NHA]

I'm a new HAM though I got my Tech license about 15 years ago. Besides making a purchased of my first HAM radio (a Kenwood TH79A Dual Band HT) I was not really ready at that time making QSO. Work was in my mind at that time (after setting foot here in the U.S.) that I completely walk away from the hobby.

Just recently I decided to come back to HAM radio. Wow, lots of HAMS are getting digital this days. Is digital voice the future of HAM radio? I saw a 10 minute YouTube video of Gary Pearce KN4AQ talking about digital voice in HAM radio. In the last segment of the video he asked this question, "How worried should you be about your analog radios becoming obsolete?".

YouTube - ARVN: D-STAR and Digital Voice for Amateur Radio (PREVIEW)

I been thinking about this question as a big factor in deciding what kind of HAM radio to buy & I finally decided & bought an Icom IC-2820H Dual Band radio with D-STAR yesterday rather than the analog Yaesu FTM-350 Dual Band radio. Is D-STAR a good choice in going digital?

I been thinking of going HF after I upgrade my Ham License. I'm considering buying a Kenwood TS-2000 all band HF/VHF/UHF transceiver since it's full featured & cheaper. Just recently I found out that Icom is going to release its first HF unit with D-STAR (Icom IC-9100). Is it worth the wait getting into digital before I buy my next radio?

 

[K3IRA]

Honestly, i dont see how digital radio will be picking up. one of the cheapest radios equiped with DSTAR is well over $800, and only icom is making these radios. the 2820 that you just purchased is really nice, i was actually going to purchase it until the yaesu 350r came out (should be here at my door on 3/2). but to equip it with DSTAR costs another $250-$300. Personally the sound quality isnt so amazing, i dont like how unnatural it is, and that the links run through the internet or a network condition. DSTAR to me is overrated, if it wasnt so expensive i think more people might get into it, that and if they made the source code open.....seriously limits the advancement of the technology among hams when you dont have it open source....

sorry if these thoughts sound scattered...just woke up

 

[W5LZ]

I think 'digital voice' has little chance of 'doing away' with the regular analog voice thingy. Think about it, AM is still around, right?
As far as 'D-Star' goes, if you have some (odd) use for it that's great. I don't honestly have much use for it so you can have my 'part' of it too.
If VHF/UHF s your only experience so far, I personally think you are missing quite a bit of fun. HF provides gobs of things you will very seldom find on VHF/UHF. Some of those 'things' aren't all that desirable, but there are a bunch that are.
And probably the most important part of the whole mess... If you ain't got Kenwood, you got squat! (If you don't like that TS-2000, can I have it??)
- 'Doc

 

[hookedon6]

it don't belong on hf ymmv

...If VHF/UHF s your only experience so far, I personally think you are missing quite a bit of fun. HF provides gobs of things you will very seldom find on VHF/UHF. Some of those 'things' aren't all that desirable...

ya mean like the digital voice types on 14.236? they have a "habit" of just firing off even when the freq is busy.

i guess they don't know that they can be understood by someone with an analog rig, it just requires an (sstv/psk/ect) interface and a second sound card in the 'puter.

 

[KB9NHA]

Honestly, i dont see how digital radio will be picking up. one of the cheapest radios equiped with DSTAR is well over $800, and only icom is making these radios. the 2820 that you just purchased is really nice, i was actually going to purchase it until the yaesu 350r came out (should be here at my door on 3/2). but to equip it with DSTAR costs another $250-$300. Personally the sound quality isnt so amazing, i dont like how unnatural it is, and that the links run through the internet or a network condition. DSTAR to me is overrated, if it wasnt so expensive i think more people might get into it, that and if they made the source code open.....seriously limits the advancement of the technology among hams when you dont have it open source....

sorry if these thoughts sound scattered...just woke up

Actually from what I've learned, digital HAM radio is way better in terms of voice quality & accessibility. The YouTube video that I've posted was made in reference to what was going on with in terms of digital HAM radio years ago (around 2005-2007). Lots of things happened in the past 2 years. The software bugs in D-STAR are now fixed. D-STAR on HVF/UHF is now ready for primetime. Also any HAM radio manufacturers (Kenwood, Yaesu, Alinco, etc. & not just Icom) can fully implement D-STAR on their HAM radios if they choose to per approval by the Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL). There's already an open-source replacement out there for the AMBE codec used by D-STAR. There's even a homebrew D-STAR HAM radio that was developed years ago made to address the many holes in the published "Open" D-STAR specification. There's also several D-STAR apps now available to download in the web for free.

Last 2007 Cecil WD6FZA made a YouTube video demonstration of the new D-STAR system at Palomar, CA ARC. In that video, it's really obvious that digital is way better than analog in terms voice quality & bandwidth usage. Take a look at the YouTube video below.

YouTube - D-Star Demonstrations at Palomar ARC 11-07-07

In terms of mobility, you can use a D-STAR HAM radio in DV (digital voice) mode in talking to another D-STAR HAM radio. You don't have to have a physical connection to the internet to use D-STAR. You can even talk to someone with D-STAR HAM radio & with access to a D-STAR repeater across the globe (ex. Australia) as if you're talking to someone across the street in DV mode. D-STAR Ham radios are backward compatible with the old analog radios too.

As opposed to WIRES-II fully implemented by Yaesu, D-STAR is way better. In WIRES-II you have to have a physical connection to a PC with active internet connection & connected to a WIRES-II Interface Kit (Yaesu HRI-100). Besides that, WIRES-II is not even digital but analog. A WIRES-II Interface Kit now costs about $160, just slightly cheaper that the Icom UT-123 D-STAR chip that you put inside a D-STAR HAM radio to enable D-STAR. In D-STAR you can access the D-STAR gateway network & talk to someone (even if you don't have a HAM radio) by using a DV Dongle (cost around $175) connected to a PC. You can also send text messages in D-STAR. You can't do that with WIRES-II.

If you factor the cost & the quality of a D-STAR HAM radio, it's actually not bad than making a purchase of an analog HAM radio. An Icom IC-2820H without a separate purchase of a D-STAR chip (if you don't go digital for now) is actually cheaper ($539.95 at hamcity.com) than Yaesu FTM-350 ($569.95 at hamcity.com). It's also nice to have something that you can put on digital in the future if you choose to. Everybody's going digital this days. TV transmissions now gone digital.

Digital is the future of HAM radio.

 

[KB9NHA]

ya mean like the digital voice types on 14.236? they have a "habit" of just firing off even when the freq is busy.

i guess they don't know that they can be understood by someone with an analog rig, it just requires an (sstv/psk/ect) interface and a second sound card in the 'puter.

That sound card you've seen in the video is gone. You don't need it with D-STAR. Much had been developed after that video was made.

 

[K3IRA]

My only point was that to talk to someone on a d-star repeater across the globe you still need that Internet connection. Yes you are right the 2820 is about $30 cheaper than the yaesu, however the yaesu comes with the built in tnc and ready to do aprs and aprs text messaging and if you want to provide your location the gps chip is only about $60. In order to do "aprs" on the icom you need the ut-123 for what they call "dprs". Believe me I had been looking at the icom for months waiting for my tax return, then I really dug into what the yaesu capabilities were and the fact that the gps add on was much cheaper and the ability to do aprs out of the box. I don't doubt that the audio quality is much better but it's just not my thing, on the digital side everyone sounds very very much alike (wish I could describe this better but don't know how). Im not trying to convince anyone which mode is superior. I'm just explaining my opinion and how I feel personally about it. Also, how can you not fall in love with the yaesu's gorgeous display? Haha

 

[hookedon6]

it still doesn't belong on hf

That sound card you've seen in the video is gone. You don't need it with D-STAR. Much had been developed after that video was made.

i don't know anything about a sound card in any video, i never watched any video.

acessing the internet is nothing new, its has been done for years with analog equipment.

if you want fm audio, then repeaters or 2 meter fm simplex is the way to go.
digital voice doesn't "play well" on HF and doesn't belong there.

 

[KB9NHA]

My only point was that to talk to someone on a d-star repeater across the globe you still need that Internet connection. Yes you are right the 2820 is about $30 cheaper than the yaesu, however the yaesu comes with the built in tnc and ready to do aprs and aprs text messaging and if you want to provide your location the gps chip is only about $60. In order to do "aprs" on the icom you need the ut-123 for what they call "dprs". Believe me I had been looking at the icom for months waiting for my tax return, then I really dug into what the yaesu capabilities were and the fact that the gps add on was much cheaper and the ability to do aprs out of the box. I don't doubt that the audio quality is much better but it's just not my thing, on the digital side everyone sounds very very much alike (wish I could describe this better but don't know how). Im not trying to convince anyone which mode is superior. I'm just explaining my opinion and how I feel personally about it. Also, how can you not fall in love with the yaesu's gorgeous display? Haha

There's no doubt that both radios are top of the line radios. One on the analog side & the other on the digital side. Talking about how good the GPS function of Yaesu FTM-350 is irrelevant. Icom has GPS function too as well as APRS (not the native APRS but through D-STAR). But what the heck, this 2 radios doesn't have turn by turn navigation. I rather use TomTom or Garmin in finding my way than relying on the radios' GPS function. Though this is not a beauty contest as both radios look cool, I kinda like the Icom's clean look but it's not really the main factor that I've decided to buy the Icom IC-2820H. Besides, the Icom radio seems immune to lock-up problems & unlike the Yaesu radio, an end user can update its firmware.

By the way, you don't need to have an internet connection in talking to someone on D-STAR repeater across the globe. The repeater handles the internet connection on D-STAR network, not your radio. You could be on the road in Chicago & talking via a D-STAR repeater to a D-STAR user also via a D-STAR repeater in Australia with voice clarity way better than someone talking on analog HAM radio across the street. It's Yaesu's WIRES-II that needs a physical connection via an Internet Interface Kit connected to a PC with active internet connection & it's not even digital. Compared to D-STAR, WIRES-II looks like dead here in the US. It's only in JAPAN that you can see lots of WIRES-II users. D-STAR repeaters here in the US are increasing in numbers every month. Most VHF/UHF repeaters now are switching to D-STAR.

Digital is the future of HAM radio. It's like watching TV. The reception is a lot better on digital.

 

[KB9NHA]

i don't know anything about a sound card in any video, i never watched any video.

acessing the internet is nothing new, its has been done for years with analog equipment.

if you want fm audio, then repeaters or 2 meter fm simplex is the way to go.
digital voice doesn't "play well" on HF and doesn't belong there.

I agree. Icom should concentrate just on VHF/UHF rather than to include D-STAR on HF, as you don't need HF modulation to talk to someone across the globe on D-STAR. But let's see what's inside Icom minds that they decided to include D-STAR on their soon to be released IC-9100 HF radio.

 

[n9zas]

I don't really care for the D-star radios,but I do have 1 icom commercial radio which we use IDAS on our local uhf repeater. IDAS has much more natural sounding speech even after switching from analog.
n9zas

 

[dr007svt]

Personally I like the D-STAR technology. I've heard the D-STAR debate play both sides of the record with the pros and cons.

Here's my opinion. I got involve with Amateur Radio because of innovations like DSTAR or Echolink or the next great HF antenna design that someone came up with in his or hers backyard. Sure the codec with DSTAR is patent but that makes it a known variable and everything else with the DSTAR technology is free for anyone to develop (hints the home-grown DSTAR repeaters, DSTAR remote bases, DSTAR radios, etc).

My point is...don't be close minded. If Amateur Radio is going to survive in the 21st century against ever mounting pressure from the FCC to auction off frequency spectrum it needs to embrace every new technology out there.

 

[Moleculo]

If Amateur Radio is going to survive in the 21st century against ever mounting pressure from the FCC to auction off frequency spectrum it needs to embrace every new technology out there.

I agree. If the price on DSTAR came down a bit, I think it would catch on quicker. The entry price is just too high for a lot of repeater owners and end users, as well. When the price comes down, I'll probably take the jump.

 

[C2]

P25

 

[Moleculo]

P25

Are there any amateur manufacturers doing anything with Project 25?