Hello Freecell:
Freecell said:
"Let's forget about the bandwidth for a moment. how can a perfectly matched antenna (1:1 or no standing waves) reflect a LOWER SWR by adding a significant amount of coax?
LOL"
Never forget the bandwidth, as the bandwidth will tell you if the antenna is being matched properly, or if the impedance matching circuit is working properly. Never forget the bandwidth!!!! A narrow bandwidth will indicate impedance matching problems.
By just looking at the SWR only, you are not seeing the forest for the tree's. With todays antenna analyzers its just too easy to see where the SWR edges are, and note how much bandwidth you have. When I install a antenna thats the first thing I look for is the useable SWR bandwidth. I write down the 3.0 to 3.0 and 2.0 to 2.0 SWR frequencies, then I see how many frequencies have the lowest SWR, and a plot a chart showing the SWR Vs Frequency is made.
If a Antenna has a 1 to 1.0 SWR, or is said to be flat (Ionly read that in the books, no one has every told me his SWR was flat. Tires yeah!) And you add or subtract coax lengths sure the SWR will not change more than likly. But our ol buddy Mr. Bandwidth will!. Again you need to see what the bandwidth did, after doing this several times with the antennas you work with you will get a sense of how the antnna is working, or not working.
Many antennas have a SWR of just over a perfect match like a SWR of 1 to 1.2. This is measured at the antenna itself. With a length of coax the SWR will now show a SWR of say 1 to 1.0 , because of the loss in the coax. And so will the bandwidth change a little. Get to know the bandwidth measuremenats. The SWR didn't really change.
I measured 3 different SWR Vs Frequency measurements of my Crusader 10K, 5 Element Yagi Beam. The 3 diffeerent SWR Vs Frequency measurements used 50 foot, 100 Foot, and 150 Foot lengths of coax. And wrote down the SWR Vs Freqency on a graph, this indicates the Bandwidth also.
The 3 different SWR Vs Frequency measurements did indicate that the SWR did change a very small amount (insignificant amount) with the 3 different lengths of coax. But because I had the "BANDWIDTH" staring me in the face I knew by looking at the SWR Vs Frequency data, that the SWR in fact did not change, it was only slightly attenuated by the longer lengths of coax. This was indicated by the usable Bandwidth of the SWR Vs Frequency measurement. The 3 differnt SWR Vs Frequency measurements, where very close to each other, and the bandwidth got slightly wider with the loner coax lengths.
As the Coax was made longer, the SWR Vs Frequency Bandwidth got slightly wider. So the SWR at all the data points did not change it was only attenuated a very small amount, with the longer lengths of coax.
Now be advised this beam antenna has a Toroid Balun that will not allow energy to radiated on the outside of the Coax. A expensive Balun is used so that radiating coax will not throw off the beams impedance matching, or pattern. And this shows as the SWR did not change at any of the SWR Vs Frequency points. Again the Bandwidth measurement shows this, as just a SWR measurement would not.
If you are seeing different SWR with different coax lengths you still need to see what the bandwidrth is, as it maybe just a slight attenuation in the energy in the coax, or the coax is radiating. Due to a lack of grounding surface, bad antenna, or a bad installation. Or just the way it is at your frequency for a mobile installation.
By learning what the antennas do in bandwidth, by ploted measurement of SWR Vs Frequency, will show you how well the matching circuit is or is not working, or if the antenna is too close to other metal objects.
I have wanted to use a Coax Choke to reduce the coax radiation in mobile installations. NOT Coax wound in a coil, as I have tested these and was not impressed, but the coax wound around a Toroid core. I have made these to reduce engine noise in cheap radios and such and worked pretty well, if thats where the noise is coming in from. But this needs to be tested, and SWR Vs Frequency measurement need to be documented to show the before and after bandwidth.
"Does cable length effect SWR"
The question needs to be qualified as to what type antenna and how it is installed.
Experenced antenna guys (that arn't normanl) will have a SWR Vs Frequency Measurement plotted out, showing the antennas usable SWR Bandwidth, and be able to show the Field Strength Levels Vs SWR, from a known reference antenna, buts thats another story.
www.a1antennas.com
Jay in the Mojave
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