Hey guys. I've done some searching and am not quite sure I've gotten the answer that I'm looking for. Here's a run down of what I'm running and what I'm going for. I have a couple of Uniden 510xl radios with one being completely stock (~5w dead key, swinging to ~11w pep) and the other having a tune up done to it (~6-7w dead key swinging to 22w pep.) I've got an xforce tnt 350hd on order and want to make sure i'm going to be ok with what I have. From what I've read most linear amp's don't want much more than 1.5-2w dead key. The 350 is saying 5w dead key on their site. I'm trying to find someone to turn down the dead key wattage on the the moded 510 that I have but am not having any luck at all. I really really want to run that radio! Do you guys think I'll be able to run my stock 510 keying 5w dead with this amp and be ok or will I hurt it even with that? Thanks for the help, I appreciate it!
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Will it fly or will I fry? Xforce 350hd.
- Thread starter vibrant93
- Start date
I am not sure of XForce specs for their amps. But if they say that it requires a 5 watt deadkey; then you are already good to go.
Can you put up a link here for the requirements of the amp you have?
Can you put up a link here for the requirements of the amp you have?
TNT 350hd
Transistors 2 x 2SC2879 Dimensions H 4 1/4' x L 7 1/8' x W 41/4' Amp Draw (maximum) 29 Class B biasingSSB Delay auto Pre-amp yes Driver Required N/A Power Output (RMS) 150 Watts Power Output (PEP) 400 Watts Driven Power (RMS) N/A Driven Power (PEP) N/Ainstall recommended with 8ga wireand 50a fuse. Max input carrier of5w or 120w max carrier from amp. Max peak input 120w.
Transistors 2 x 2SC2879 Dimensions H 4 1/4' x L 7 1/8' x W 41/4' Amp Draw (maximum) 29 Class B biasingSSB Delay auto Pre-amp yes Driver Required N/A Power Output (RMS) 150 Watts Power Output (PEP) 400 Watts Driven Power (RMS) N/A Driven Power (PEP) N/Ainstall recommended with 8ga wireand 50a fuse. Max input carrier of5w or 120w max carrier from amp. Max peak input 120w.
Thanks for the responces guys, I appreciate it. The specs above are exactly what their site says. As you can see it's not a required 5w but a maximum of a 5w carrier. From everything i've read you don't want to over drive an amp with a dead key and I'd assume i'm going to be on the ragged edge with even the stock radio.
Wow, you guys are really making me feel better about this whole situation. From everything I've read it's too much power down low that kills the amp. Like I was saying, I can't find anyone locally that knows how to turn down dead key power in this radio without knocking down pep or modulated power. I DONT want that.
Well, I suppose a tad means different things to different people. Didn't that amp mfr says that it is OK to have a 5 watts carrier? SO, turn it down to 4 - that is just a tweak. Not too much or too little.
Some guys would have clipped the limiter diode and used a swing kit to maintain maximum modulation and have a 1 1/2 to 2 watt carrier. What do you want to do?
You started by asking what you already knew; so what are you really asking?
Ok this is where I start to get lost. I'm not real sure how the place of which I bought the "moded" radio got it to where it's at. I just know what it's putting out on the meter. Is there more than one way to achieve different levels of power that a radio produces? It's possible that this radio has had a diode clipped and a swing kit (I don't know what that is) put into it. I just dont want to fry a new amp, that's all. My dad is into amature radio and i'm just not quite ready to get into another hobby that involves spending lots of money on different toys (rigs) so this is my only way to combat that and still be able to have some fun with him. I just want to be able to chat with him a little more than the 5-10 miles that we get to chat now.
Thanks again for the patience, I'm very green to all of this.
The carriers watts raise the average/RMS power in any amp. The only way to determine if the radio you have has been modded with a swing kit and a clipped modulation diode is to see it on a meter that shows 'peak envelope power' - or 'PEP'. When keying the mic w/o talking; the power on the meter should show either 6 watts as you already said - or will show 1 1/2 -2 watts. When one talks into the mic; the meter will swing up to a high point. That will be the 'PEP' power - sometimes called 'swing watts'. I would ask the shop who worked on it if in doubt. If you wanted them to mod it for you, I'm sure they would.
The TNT 350HD can take up to 120 watts input power - as in PEP. That figure sounds absurd to me; but that is what they publish. I've never owned one of those amps - so I couldn't say either way. Sounds it would like more radio power than what you have to work with to maximize it capacity. Because your radios can't put out more than 16 or so watts PEP/'swing watts'. I think what radio you have won't destroy the amp. I would call up XForce come Monday and ask them to be certain. Why not?
If you really want to have success talking to your Dad from your mobile radio setup; using a better antenna would go a long way to be certain of that success. Your Dad is a Ham/amateur - impress him by empoying the best antenna you can afford.
Best way!
The TNT 350HD can take up to 120 watts input power - as in PEP. That figure sounds absurd to me; but that is what they publish. I've never owned one of those amps - so I couldn't say either way. Sounds it would like more radio power than what you have to work with to maximize it capacity. Because your radios can't put out more than 16 or so watts PEP/'swing watts'. I think what radio you have won't destroy the amp. I would call up XForce come Monday and ask them to be certain. Why not?
If you really want to have success talking to your Dad from your mobile radio setup; using a better antenna would go a long way to be certain of that success. Your Dad is a Ham/amateur - impress him by empoying the best antenna you can afford.
Best way!
I do have a meter that has pep on it and when keying the mike with the stock uniden I see 5w with no talk into the mic. When I modulate it'll swing up to the 11-12w range. The uniden that has been "moded" is keying 7w dead on the same meter and will swing to 21-22w on that meter. Answer me this. I thought the 120w power input rating on the amp was if you were using another amp to power it, not a radio? I just assumed the 5w was a power rating if you were using a cb....?
Edit* I threw a k-40 lid mount on the car in hopes of it being able to carry the power. After cutting and cutting i've got swr down to about 1.2:1 which I think should do the trick.
AS I said, the XForce company stated that the amp can handle up to 120 watts - regardless if it is a radio or 'modulator-type' amp.
What kind of antenna are you using?
That's pretty important. Either one of those radios should be able to get out a lot farther if the antenna is of decent quality.
Any Ham/amateur will tell you that the antenna is the most important piece of gear to have and set up properly...
What kind of antenna are you using?
That's pretty important. Either one of those radios should be able to get out a lot farther if the antenna is of decent quality.
Any Ham/amateur will tell you that the antenna is the most important piece of gear to have and set up properly...
The K-40 is a nice antenna. I had two of them until I moved up.
But they can only take about 150 watts before it snaps a small capacitor that it has built into the base. That XForce is sure to do just that.
You might consider running a mag mount Wilson 1000 or Wilson 5000 on the top/center of the vehicle. They can handle lots of power - more than your amp can put out. That will cost a lot less than the amp did - and probably be twice as effective. Those antennas are only two alternatives - there are others. Bang for buck, they will be the easiest to tune and take off with little or no problem.
If the company specs on that amp are correct - it should work easily. I would still call and ask them myself. I think that the XForce specs wants to see a radio that has a 5 watt minimum and up to 120 watts PEP. Your radio should sound very clean with that amp. Can't say if your antenna will stay together - though...doubtful...
But they can only take about 150 watts before it snaps a small capacitor that it has built into the base. That XForce is sure to do just that.
You might consider running a mag mount Wilson 1000 or Wilson 5000 on the top/center of the vehicle. They can handle lots of power - more than your amp can put out. That will cost a lot less than the amp did - and probably be twice as effective. Those antennas are only two alternatives - there are others. Bang for buck, they will be the easiest to tune and take off with little or no problem.
If the company specs on that amp are correct - it should work easily. I would still call and ask them myself. I think that the XForce specs wants to see a radio that has a 5 watt minimum and up to 120 watts PEP. Your radio should sound very clean with that amp. Can't say if your antenna will stay together - though...doubtful...
If your DK (dead key, no modulation) with the amp on is about 100W, that's fine.
The radio DK is not as important as the amps DK.
Maintain a ratio of DK=25% of the total output.
If it peaks at 400W, a DK of 100W is appropriate.
I had the same thing (MagnaForce 350) and beat it with 80W peak.
Saw 600W, but bet alot was not on 11M.
400W is alot more realistic, I mentioned what I did to let you know that it's a fairly tough amp.
The radio DK is not as important as the amps DK.
Maintain a ratio of DK=25% of the total output.
If it peaks at 400W, a DK of 100W is appropriate.
I had the same thing (MagnaForce 350) and beat it with 80W peak.
Saw 600W, but bet alot was not on 11M.
400W is alot more realistic, I mentioned what I did to let you know that it's a fairly tough amp.