10 meters, is it really that bad???

[Cat Driver]

I never said I was an authority on Ham history. You did. I know what I see and hear and read. Is it enough to realize what's happening? Maybe. I brought up facts - regardless how the chips fall.

So what if I became a Ham in Dec?

"Hams used them before CBers did." You have been licensed since December, but you are an authortity on amateur radio history.



There ya go, right there, thats the reason I don't do much besides 2 meter anymore. Theres to many hams that think they are gods gift to radio. That sounds just like some smart azz comment that come from the qrz bunch.
All I can say, is they are just cuttin' their own throat, an I could give a crap less.
I bet I could name 10 mistakes these so called experts make while they are telling others how its suppose to be........

 

[WX2MIG]

Not worth getting into a pissing match fellas.

Remember, the content of written words are often taken in a way it was not intended to sound.

I seriously did not get the impression from Rob's statement that he was coming off like a know-it-all, and he certainly didn't sound like one of those armchair radio lawyers from QRZ.

Either way, certainly no need to break out the flame throwers just yet....

 

[n0zna]

Its not worth replying

to the smart ass cbers/hams/or people you meet.I dont let anyone bother me.Its not worth my time.I put up with it at work before i retired.I dont need it on the radio,cb,or ham.If you let them bother you,they won.Thats what they want.73s de JW

 

[Sonwatcher]

It's easy to hear someone make a mistake and attribute evil intent but easy to view our own shortcomings as mistakes or even overlook them . It's best to lay aside first impressions and try to look at a situation with the view that I can use some wisdom and help this person iron out some rough edges.

 

[kd3yt]

My only problem with a roger beep is when it is so shrill is actually hurts your ears. I have been a ham for almost 20 years now and have never heard a roger beep on 10 meters where I live when the solar cycle is up. We have a old timer local here on cb whose roger beep actually hurts your ears! Do I think it is wrong to use them on ham radio - no, they can be very useful at times. My pet peeves are the people who tune up on you when having a qso, and the goody two shoes on the bands and forums!!

 

[n0zna]

I been on 28.420usb all day,and never heard any roger beep or echo chambers.I even went up and down the voice band looking to find one.Nothing.73s all have fun de JW

 

[jazzsinger]

i ain't taking sides on ham v cb but there is a lot to be said for the use of rodger beeps especially on ssb in poor conditions going by the number of people who can't tell the difference between a pause and the end of a transmission if they have no carrier to watch on their s meter,

i believe this is common on both cb and amateur radio as there is people in both who just can't wait to open their big gobs and gob of about how much they know,when they usually know next to f@ck all.more often than not their ego dwarfs their intelligence by a 1000:1 ratio.

 

[WX2MIG]

i ain't taking sides on ham v cb but there is a lot to be said for the use of rodger beeps especially on ssb in poor conditions going by the number of people who can't tell the difference between a pause and the end of a transmission if they have no carrier to watch on their s meter,

i believe this is common on both cb and amateur radio as there is people in both who just can't wait to open their big gobs and gob of about how much they know,when they usually know next to f@ck all.more often than not their ego dwarfs their intelligence by a 1000:1 ratio.

That especially comes into play with hams that use VOX, I quickly grew tired of engaging in QSO's on the 80 meter band because the vast majority of the guys I talked with used VOX, and they were constantly talking over each other. It appears to me that when you have to go through the effort of pushing a switch to transmit, it helps to keep some operators from jumping the gun....(not all, but some) VOX tends to create an atmosphere of being in the same room having a discussion where talking over each other may be acceptable, but it doesn't work on two way radio. Again this is where a roger beep would help to control that desire to jump in too soon with your reply.
But that's assuming it's not an obnoxious sounding device......

 

[SR385]

That especially comes into play with hams that use VOX, I quickly grew tired of engaging in QSO's on the 80 meter band because the vast majority of the guys I talked with used VOX, and they were constantly talking over each other. It appears to me that when you have to go through the effort of pushing a switch to transmit, it helps to keep some operators from jumping the gun....(not all, but some) VOX tends to create an atmosphere of being in the same room having a discussion where talking over each other may be acceptable, but it doesn't work on two way radio. Again this is where a roger beep would help to control that desire to jump in too soon with your reply.
But that's assuming it's not an obnoxious sounding device......

VOX can actually help prevent that. Generally it's when people are using PTT that they tend to key on top of each other. The trouble with VOX is you have to have it adjusted just right and have to have a quiet shack.

With my setup, the lag of relays makes using VOX tricky and my shack is in the middle of the house so it's not very often I have the place to myself and can just relax and use it. One of these days I make make up some pin diode switches so I can have full break-in keying for VOX...but they are a bit expensive and pretty fragile if you don't have the circuits juuuust right.

One of the better tips I've been given is to start with a few words and quickly unkey to see if anyone else is underneath. It takes a bit of using that method to get used to it though. Basically just unkey between the first couple words, just enough to hear if anyone else is there.

Then again on my old 'home' frequency, which you know, there are a lot of CBers that just plain key on other people as a matter of their operating habits. It's one of the reasons I'm not there very often anymore ;-). "You still hear me right?" on top of another person makes me want to go pull down antennas.

 

[W5LZ]

PTT or VOX, more a matter of operating 'style', and exactly what the purpose of that operating is. Either can be abused, and are in some cases.
For situations where there are more than two people, especially in some sort of 'controlled' situations, PTT is the preferred method. Not as much chance of an inadvertent interruption or embarrassment. In more informal circumstances there's nothing wrong with using VOX. You are still subject to that inadvertent/embarrassing stuff, it just doesn't matter as much.
Noise makes a big difference. Much of my operating has been in noisy situations, so, I prefer to use PTT. I've gotten used to how that's 'done', and have no problems with it. As in I don't touch that button till I want to, and turn loose of it when I'm finished. The correct settings for VOX are not, and will never be the same for everyone. Why should I mess with it? I'm lazy, but not lazy enough not to punch'dat'button.
- 'Doc

 

[SR385]

PTT or VOX, more a matter of operating 'style', and exactly what the purpose of that operating is. Either can be abused, and are in some cases.
For situations where there are more than two people, especially in some sort of 'controlled' situations, PTT is the preferred method. Not as much chance of an inadvertent interruption or embarrassment. In more informal circumstances there's nothing wrong with using VOX. You are still subject to that inadvertent/embarrassing stuff, it just doesn't matter as much.
Noise makes a big difference. Much of my operating has been in noisy situations, so, I prefer to use PTT. I've gotten used to how that's 'done', and have no problems with it. As in I don't touch that button till I want to, and turn loose of it when I'm finished. The correct settings for VOX are not, and will never be the same for everyone. Why should I mess with it? I'm lazy, but not lazy enough not to punch'dat'button.
- 'Doc

It's not a matter of laziness in a group, it's the matter of break-in. So that you unkey between words. Makes things faster moving and lets you hear if someone else is talking or commenting.

Correct settings are a matter of the gain to trip it and having the delay fast enough to let go on about a word and a half delay. It does get annoying with mechanical relays going though.

 

[W5LZ]

SR385,
I can only speak for myself, so, that laziness is true for me. Partially it a matter of I just don't have any desire to 'learn' to operate that way. I'm noisy! Cough, hack, make remarks to my self, etc, etc. That just wouldn't go over to great with VOX, you know? I you, or anyone else wants to use it, have at it. There are circumstances where it's just not a very good idea though.
- 'Doc

 

[WR0220]

Roger beeps are not courtesy tones. They are nothing more than noise toys, with no usefull purpose other than to show off. THis makes them a violation of both part 95 and 97.
Rich

The Galaxy DX 2547, DX939 and DX 959 (among others) are all FCC Type Accepted radios for the CB Service and they come with factory installed roger beeps. Considering that fact, I'd venture to guess that the FCC doesn't consider them (roger beeps) illegal.

I really think this whole roger beep/overmodulated/spurious emission/rule violation debate is dependent upon your QTH and/or something fabricated by a disgruntled OT that has nothing better to do then piss, bitch and moan about anything and everything remotely related to the radio services. I hear more violations of the rules around here being committed by OTs. In fact, the only violation I have heard any 'newbies' commit is asking for a 'break' on one of the 2m repeaters. A simple and polite explanation of the usage resolves the situation. I have never heard a roger beep used on any of the amateur bands by a 'newbie'...but I have by a few OTs...go figure.

 

[WX2MIG]

I'm noisy! Cough, hack, make remarks to my self, etc, etc. That just wouldn't go over to great with VOX, you know?
- 'Doc

Same here Doc, if I used VOX on some of our VHF / UHF simplex and repeater nets, there'd be a lot of local hams pissed off at me....

We got a few of those obnoxious long winded old timers that know everything about nothing, and tend to time out the repeater with all the "nothing" they have to say, if some of the comments I've made out loud to myself were transmitted via VOX, I'd have a pile of OO cards sitting on the desk.....:glare:

Some of these old hams are marginally tolerable during rag chew nets, but when they get on their long winded diatribes on structured RACES, ARES, or Skywarn nets I tend to blow a few "behind the scenes" fuses, and say things to myself not appropriate for amateur radio.... I just tend to say them out loud....

What SR385 said about the usual crowd on 80 meters is a good example, and if you know how to use VOX correctly it is a useful device, but I listen to several of the 3.814 clowns try and talk over each other all the time because they forget their on radio, and not in the same room as everyone else they are talking to.....

Originally Posted by n8fgb View Post
Roger beeps are not courtesy tones. They are nothing more than noise toys, with no usefull purpose other than to show off. THis makes them a violation of both part 95 and 97.
Rich

I have to disagree with you on this one, I do not believe roger beeps are against either set of rules (95 or 97), however noise toys "may" be. One of our local repeaters uses the morse code letter "K" for a roger beep, a quick unobtrusive "dah-dit-dah" is about as much as should be used, anything more and your taking the concept over the edge....
The sad reality of it is, many hams, whether newbies or old timers need to hear a roger beep to know when it's alright to key up, some are just too stupid, ignorant, or stubborn to figure out good operating practice without audible indicators.
This is not to say I want everybody to run out and get a roger beep, but I still believe it has a place in amateur radio....

 

[W5LZ]

Some of those 'tones' have a useful purpose. Most don't. For example, one of the local repeaters is linked with others through out the state, and does use a 'tone' to let you know that fact. That's not a standardized thing at all, unfortunately, there's no requirement for it. It's handy to know though. The local repeaters all have a squeltch 'tail' of short duration. More of a 'thunk' than anything I can think of. That's good too, but can be over-done very quickly. If you're familiar with how things are set up locally, those tones, or the lack of them, can tell you quite a bit about what you are hearing.
If there's a purpose for something I think that's all well and good. If there isn't, then I think it's sort of pointless and just a bother.
Different strokes/different folks.
- 'Doc