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Dipole with 102s

the important thing about the choke is not really the number of turns, but the length of cable used to get the turns.

here is a very intuitive link on choke baluns:

BUILD AN AIR WOUND 1:1 CHOKE BALUN FOR HF - THE UGLY BALUN!

in this article, they will tell you that you need 18-21 feet of length in your "coil", but that is for 1-30mhz.

you are only interested in 26-28mhz roughly, so all you need is around 8-10 feet of length in your coil.

now, since you are using RG8 coax, you need to be sure not to wrap it around anything too small in diameter or you risk changing the impedance of the coax by squeezing the shield and the center conductor close together.

i would not use anything less than 4" in diameter. preferably 6" in diameter.
this will come out to about 6-8 turns on your coil form, whatever that may be. (just dont use anything metal or wood)


also, there is something about mounting your dipole vertically that i dont think has been mentioned here yet.

that is, the coax must leave the dipole at a 90* angle from the elements for at least the first 8-9 feet. (1/4 wavelength at 11 meters)
that means that if you mount the dipole vertically, you must run the coax horizontally away from the antenna for the first 8-10 feet before you can run it down to the station.
running the coax parallel with the bottom leg of the dipole will mess up the pattern.

this is why you see most dipoles mounted horizontally. to take advantage of the coax coming straight down from the antenna while still being perpendicular to the antenna elements.

when running a barefoot station, you need all the help you can get from your antenna system.

as has been mentioned before, if you want to talk locally most of the time, you should consider mounting the dipole vertically, as mounting it horizontally will attenuate all the signals coming in from the mobiles and vertical antennas in your area.

if, however, you want to talk skip most of the time, mount it horizontally, as skip signals change polarization all the time and rarely hit you exactly vertical or horizontal.

also, if its convenient at all, a neat thing to do is to mount your mast in a way that allows you to turn the mast different directions.

this way, if you want to talk north south primarily, you can turn it that way, and if you want to talk east west primarily, you can turn it that way.

there are many ways to do this, as im sure you can picture.

the best advice i can give you is to get it up in the air and mess with it before you try to finalize everything, as you will undoubtedly have to change something that you thought you would not have to change.

thats just the way it goes,
good luck,
LC
 
I did mount the antenna horizontal. Mainly due to tree interference.

Regarding the choke, does it need to be at the feed point, or could it be at the base of the "mast" (which is only 10 feet)? That would leave 10 feet of coax to the choke at 90 degrees.
 
you really should put it at the feedpoint.

if you dont want to wrap that heavy RG8 around a big coil form and hang it there because of weight; how about building a choke balun out of RG8mini (RG8x) coax.

buy a jumper of RG8x coax about 9 feet long with PL259's already soldered on.
jumpers like these are available all over ebay.

here is one for 7.99 with a buy it now:
Ham CB Radio RG8X Coax Cable 9 Ft Jumper With PL259's - eBay (item 400059323312 end time Jul-08-09 21:54:24 PDT)

i also saw another one for 12.50, so they are not too expensive.
maybe you can find one with free shipping.


anyway, if you are using ring terminals to attach your coax to the antenna elements, then just cut one end off and attach ring terminals to the coax.

then wrap the jumper around a 3" or 4" coil form. (ive used a mostly gone roll of duct tape as a form before)

attach your ring terminals to the antenna and hang the coil right there at the feedpoint with some nylon cable ties or whatever to hold the weight off the ring terminals.

get yourself a barrel connector (female to female) from radio shack or from ebay, and you are in business.

just make sure you weather proof the coil and all of your coax connections, as you dont want water getting into your coax.

good luck,
LC
 
...Or, just wrap the coax around the pole a few times keeping the coils close together. Doesn't really matter if the pole is metal or not. Closer to the antenna is better than further away.
- 'Doc
 
you really should put it at the feedpoint.

if you dont want to wrap that heavy RG8 around a big coil form and hang it there because of weight; how about building a choke balun out of RG8mini (RG8x) coax.

buy a jumper of RG8x coax about 9 feet long with PL259's already soldered on.
jumpers like these are available all over ebay.

here is one for 7.99 with a buy it now:
Ham CB Radio RG8X Coax Cable 9 Ft Jumper With PL259's - eBay (item 400059323312 end time Jul-08-09 21:54:24 PDT)

i also saw another one for 12.50, so they are not too expensive.
maybe you can find one with free shipping.


anyway, if you are using ring terminals to attach your coax to the antenna elements, then just cut one end off and attach ring terminals to the coax.

then wrap the jumper around a 3" or 4" coil form. (ive used a mostly gone roll of duct tape as a form before)

attach your ring terminals to the antenna and hang the coil right there at the feedpoint with some nylon cable ties or whatever to hold the weight off the ring terminals.

get yourself a barrel connector (female to female) from radio shack or from ebay, and you are in business.

just make sure you weather proof the coil and all of your coax connections, as you dont want water getting into your coax.

good luck,
LC
good call loose cannon heres mine match was 1.1.
 

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I have no issue hanging the RG8 from the mast. Just looking for alternatives.

Thanks for all the help...this will be my first base. I'm going to temporarily hook up a short section of mini-8 to test the antenna prior to receiving my radio. Hopefully I can have it tuned (hopefully it doesn't need tuned!) Without too much issue.
 
Ok, for testing, I hooked up around 15 feet of Mini8 to it and strung it down the mast.

The good news...swr is 1.3 on 40 and 1.5 on 1...that's with a known meter and a ratshack handheld (on batteries)...putting in 3.5 watts and swinging to around 10.

That's also without a choke. Chokes keep common mode currents from occurring, right? How would I know if I really need one?

I did not make any contacts, but the channels were all really busy. Will check again in the morning when its quieter.

I will take pictures tomorrow.
 
Ok, for testing, I hooked up around 15 feet of Mini8 to it and strung it down the mast.

The good news...swr is 1.3 on 40 and 1.5 on 1...that's with a known meter and a ratshack handheld (on batteries)...putting in 3.5 watts and swinging to around 10.

That's also without a choke. Chokes keep common mode currents from occurring, right? How would I know if I really need one?

I did not make any contacts, but the channels were all really busy. Will check again in the morning when its quieter.

I will take pictures tomorrow.
you really dont need one if you were having swr problems than that might help.good deal enjoy!
 
if you move the coax around while reading your SWR and it changes as you move the coax, then you probably have some common mode currents on it.

not like a bad connection would look, but more like a rising and falling of the SWR.

its worth a shot if you want, but it sounds like you are good to go.

good luck with it,
LC
 
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Well, so far so good...not that a handheld puts out a ton of power at 3.5 watts, but...

I purposely tried to bleed over our TVs and computer speakers tonight...nothing. I then decided to see if it caused interference with the neighbors stereo (they had it cranked for a party), nothing.

I also found some locals talking tonight...the one I know his location, about 30 miles as the crow flies. He was giving me around 4 S-units on the dipole/handheld. I decided to compare to my truck (102/DX959), and heard...nothing but static. The dipole is picking up a batch of DX...although I don't know what frequencies the uppers and lowers are, this Midland 822 is picking up on everything. The dipole seems to be quieter...

I have only made one contact (radio check on 19)...nothing special. The noise has been too much, and I think it has kept the locals off the air. I'll know more once I get a real radio hooked to it...
 
I think you are seeing the possibilities now without a 'real live' radio hooked to it. Won't be the bestest thing ever, but it certainly isn't bad by any means. Have fun.
- 'Doc
 
Well, so far so good...not that a handheld puts out a ton of power at 3.5 watts, but...

I purposely tried to bleed over our TVs and computer speakers tonight...nothing. I then decided to see if it caused interference with the neighbors stereo (they had it cranked for a party), nothing.

I also found some locals talking tonight...the one I know his location, about 30 miles as the crow flies. He was giving me around 4 S-units on the dipole/handheld. I decided to compare to my truck (102/DX959), and heard...nothing but static. The dipole is picking up a batch of DX...although I don't know what frequencies the uppers and lowers are, this Midland 822 is picking up on everything. The dipole seems to be quieter...

I have only made one contact (radio check on 19)...nothing special. The noise has been too much, and I think it has kept the locals off the air. I'll know more once I get a real radio hooked to it...

Good job. You've essentially made yourself a NVIS antenna, good for the 20-300 mile range. If you've got the ticket, get on 20 meters by replacing the 102's with 20M "Hamsticks" and look out. Incredibly effective.
 

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