I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SWING

[Stellasstillarat]

Are all these posts about radios that dead key 1-4 watts and swinging up to 20 watts referring to radios that have modified audio sections? My unmodified Madison dead key's 4 watts and swings to maybe 10. Is this normal. Should it be swinging higher? Im using a d104 t-up9. I'm getting my readings off a workman three window (swr, modulation, power) meter. Could it be the meter? If I drop the wattage down the dead key should I see a higher swing?

 

[vkrules]

First of all that meter is not going to read "swing" correctly. Secondly don't get all up tight about this swing thing. if it sound good with no distortion it's ok.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

Please forgive me. I said my Madison swings from 4 dead key to 10 watts. It's more like 1 or 2 watt swing UOTE="Stellasstillarat, post: 503145, member: 42401"]Are all these posts about radios that dead key 1-4 watts and swinging up to 20 watts referring to radios that have modified audio sections? My unmodified Madison dead key's 4 watts and swings to maybe 10. Is this normal. Should it be swinging higher? Im using a d104 t-up9. I'm getting my readings off a workman three window (swr, modulation, power) meter. Could it be the meter? If I drop the wattage down the dead key should I see a higher swing?[/QUOTE]
Pl

 

[wavrider]

Until you get a PEP reading meter. ( If you do not understand PEP then google it.)

As previous mentioned, if you get good audio reports, and no distortion, does it really matter what the meter reads, it is your transmitted audio that matters.

You have mentioned in previous threads how you always get your name called in DX land, so your radio must be working correctly, right?

 

[222DBFL]

Seems as of right now the radio Is operating about right at 1-2 dead key and swing of 10 watts. if the radio is stock it should be dead keying 4 watts unless this setting has been adjusted for a lower dead key. But like all the others are saying if it sounds good leave it be!! Don't get all hung up on watts and watching the watt meter, I have taken all my meters out of line and use them mostly for reference when needed. Run it stock and it will last a lot longer and most likely sound better the way it is. Have a good one and God Bless.

 

[wavrider]

http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj/peaking.htm

good read

http://www.worldwidedx.com/threads/am-cb-myths.68968/

good thread on this site

 

[space cowboy]

If you do not understand PEP then google it.

what does Philippine Showbiz or pepsico have to do with anything.

much better to google peak envelope power.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

[QshouldE="vkrules, post: 503148, member: 24352"]First of all that meter is not going to read "swing" correctly. Secondly don't get all up tight about this swing thing. if it sound good with no distortion it's ok.[/QUOTE]
Thanks vkrules. I was really curious because I'm running a 4 -1446 amp. I thought if the Madison isn't getting the proper swing I wouldn't be driving

Until you get a PEP reading meter. ( If you do not understand PEP then google it.)

As previous mentioned, if you get good audio reports, and no distortion, does it really matter what the meter reads, it is your transmitted audio that matters.

You have mentioned in previous threads how you always get your name called in DX land, so your radio must be working correctly, right?

I should've actually been asking a different question. I'm not that worried about my audio as both my everyday radios get great reports. I was just curious how one gets those forward modulation readings. It didn't really concern me until, I saw a YouTube video of a guy dead keying his cb at 11/2 watts swinging over 20. It peaked my interest and made me think that after 28 years it may be time for new translators and an alignment. I kinda live by the rule if it's not broke don't fix it. That's just what I'm gonna do.Thanks

 

[Stellasstillarat]

Seems as of right now the radioperating about right at 1-2 dead key and swing of 10 watts. if the radio is stock it should be dead keying 4 watts unless this setting has been adjusted for a lower dead key. But like all the others are saying if it sounds good leave it be!! Don't get all hung up on watts and watching the watt meter, I have taken all my meters out of line and use them mostly for reference when needed. Run it stock and it will last a lot longer and most likely sound better the way it is. Have a good one and God Bless.

My Madison is dead keying at 4. In the beginning of my post I was referring to the posts of other's who say there radio's dead key at 1 1/2 and swing at or above 20. My Madison is 100% stock and it's audio is excellent.

 

[binrat]

My Madison is dead keying at 4. In the beginning of my post I was referring to the posts of other's who say there radio's dead key at 1 1/2 and swing at or above 20. My Madison is 100% stock and it's audio is excellent.

I would not change a thing then.

 

[Rick330man]

Swing is over-rated. I much prefer classic rock or punk rock.

To echo what others have said, I would not mess with a radio that works as it should. I've got a stash of about 30 CB radios. Several are over 30 years old. I've left them stock - unmodified. Other than changing broken walkie talkie antennas or resoldering something, a little tuner cleaner on the pots and/or connectors every few years has been it. It keeps everything good to go.

When you do the math, the changes in output required to realize significant signal strength improvement are typically beyond the capability of your standard 11 meter radio chassis.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

I've recently learned thatb 100% modulation equates to X4 your dead key. If this is indeed true, my uniden madison with 100% modulation is swinging to 20 watts. It's not really important to me. I was just curious if these upward modulation clams were inflated or fantasy. Either way I'm enjoying my radio as much as I did 30 years ago. Thanks
UOTE="Rick330man, post: 503375, member: 30799"]Swing is over-rated. I much prefer classic rock or punk rock.

To echo what others have said, I would not mess with a radio that works as it should. I've got a stash of about 30 CB radios. Several are over 30 years old. I've left them stock - unmodified. Other than changing broken walkie talkie antennas or resoldering something, a little tuner cleaner on the pots and/or connectors every few years has been it. It keeps everything good to go.

When you do the math, the changes in output required to realize significant signal strength improvement are typically beyond the capability of your standard 11 meter radio chassis.[/QUOTE]
Iv

 

[Onelasttime]

Well a little bit of swing never hurt anyone. The problem is that more is not always better. People are never happy and always want more.

If you give a kid a hammer then world becomes a nail. Give a CB'er a plastic alignment tool and suddenly he is a CB Radio Tech and has his radio sounding like garbage splattering harmonics 10 channels either side of the channel he is actually talking on.

Most of them want to see big numbers and run their gear too hard.

I was not burn until the 1970's but I think the point behind swing was to get a bit more audio punch originally. I do not think it was about power since a lot of older radios just will not give you much more then the ratted power output. I have worked on some old Motorola transitored radios that keyed like 3 watts with almost no swing and if you where lucky you could massage 7 or 8 watts out of them. It is not like the 1980's and 1990's when you would time to time be able to get 20-30 clean not over modulated watts out of a modern SSB radio with a single 2SC1969.

With out hearing these other radio's or tossing them on a scope it is hard to tell the quality of the power and if they are full of spurious harmonics.

Even when I run power I always set my gear up so I could key it up and walk away for a day and the gear would be just fine. I value durability and ultra clean sounding radio's that are rock solid on SSB.

So do not chase after swing to get more watt's! In fact if you have too much swing sometimes locals will ignore you thinking you are skip unless they know you and your voice. I am assuming your Madison has a 2SC1969 final in it. At some point that old girl is going to need to be recapped and maybe voltage regulator replace and some other minor repairs. I would send it to a really good shop and most of them will align the radio after any work. If you DX a lot that radio would sound much better with a 3-4 watt dead key swinging to 12-15 watts. When DX'ing audio is often more important then rf power. If you want more power then leav the radio alone and get amp and a decent antenna. The first big increase in power and performance happens at 100watts. If you go that route then a radio that is keying 2 watt dead key swinging to 7-10 or even a bone stock 4 watt output would be fine. Delaying the carrier until modulation is added is not all bad it is just abused.

I have been overly simplistic and I am sorry if that offends you it is not meant to be.

 

[Stellasstillarat]

[QU="Onelasttime, post: 504924, member: 21190"]Well a little bit of swing never hurt anyone. The problem is that more is not always better. People are never happy and always want more.

If you give a kid a hammer then world becomes a nail. Give a CB'er a plastic alignment tool and suddenly he is a CB Radio Tech and has his radio sounding like garbage splattering harmonics 10 channels either side of the channel he is actually talking on.

Most of them want to see big numbers and run their gear too hard.

I was not burn until the 1970's but I think the point behind swing was to get a bit more audio punch originally. I do not think it was about power since a lot of older radios just will not give you much more then the ratted power output. I have worked on some old Motorola transitored radios that keyed like 3 watts with almost no swing and if you where lucky you could massage 7 or 8 watts out of them. It is not like the 1980's and 1990's when you would time to time be able to get 20-30 clean not over modulated watts out of a modern SSB radio with a single 2SC1969.

With out hearing these other radio's or tossing them on a scope it is hard to tell the quality of the power and if they are full of spurious harmonics.

Even when I run power I always set my gear up so I could key it up and walk away for a day and the gear would be just fine. I value durability and ultra clean sounding radio's that are rock solid on SSB.

So do not chase after swing to get more watt's! In fact if you have too much swing sometimes locals will ignore you thinking you are skip unless they know you and your voice. I am assuming your Madison has a 2SC1969 final in it. At some point that old girl is going to need to be recapped and maybe voltage regulator replace and some other minor repairs. I would send it to a really good shop and most of them will align the radio after any work. If you DX a lot that radio would sound much better with a 3-4 watt dead key swinging to 12-15 watts. When DX'ing audio is often more important then rf power. If you want more power then leav the radio alone and get amp and a decent antenna. The first big increase in power and performance happens at 100watts. If you go that route then a radio that is keying 2 watt dead key swinging to 7-10 or even a bone stock 4 watt output would be fine. Delaying the carrier until modulation is added is not all bad it is just abused.

I have been overly simplistic and I am sorry if that offends you it is not meant to be.[/QUOTE]
No offense taken. I totally agree. My question was purely based on curiosity. Being a collector and user of tube radios clean audio has and always be the most important thing to me. Besides my first cb radio in 74 this Madison is the only transistorized rig I've ever owned/used. After plugging it in (about 3 months ago) the first thing that caught my attention was the unbelievable receive. After transmitting I was struck with the excellent reports I received. It didn't take long for me to discover ssb. I've been a single minded am enthusiast for the life of my cb history but this madison changed all that. I still perfer using my sonar fs2340 when on am but, don't get me wrong the madison performs outstanding on am. I don't think I will ever us my madison or any transistorized radio exclusivly but if I did it would definitely be this uniden. I have to give the tube radios a chance in the line up and imo nothing sounds better than a tudes cb on am. My Madison dead key's at 2 1/2 and swings to a bit under 10 watts. I make contacts all over the world on am and ssb with nothing but excellent reports. Im not familiar with the board you've mentioned but this madison has the 8719. I would recommend anyone looking for a 40 channel ssb base station cb not look any further than a madison. Unless someone's looking for a modern cb base station with all those (imo) useless bells and whistles. It can easily be modified for freebanding. A channel kit and frequency counter can be purchased from Ralph (fadtrack09) on eBay. I accually concidered this then decided to keep the madison stock but after a few months of using it in it's stock configuration I did purchase the kits off Ralph. Blue lighted meters blue channel selector blue frequency counter and blue usb lsb am led's. I justified this by telling myself it's not modified in a way that chops cuts and adds wires in order to change the performance. It's really a great looking/performing radio. If I would've known what great radios these Madison's are I probably wouldn't have collected and sworn by tubers. I'm very happy to have collected so many great oldies in the heyday but once again this, uniden Madison is an incredible cb radio.