truck dose 13.5 and doesn't really drop when I key, and with 50w in from the 2 pill I should see more than 100 with 4 pills.
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low output from this 4 pill
- Thread starter JimboSlice
- Start date
what is the value of the large round ceramic cap on the output transformer?
That 2 pill should do about 180w but your 980 radio might deadkey 4w in AM but it barely has any power even to run the 2 pill? I find that strange.
Whats been done to the radio? is it stock untouched?
That 2 pill should do about 180w but your 980 radio might deadkey 4w in AM but it barely has any power even to run the 2 pill? I find that strange.
Whats been done to the radio? is it stock untouched?
Last edited:
Stock it swings 10 watt waiting for Black Friday to get a 955, 2 pill dose a little over 100 in am, I’m supper impressed with it 150 in ssb. Just when I first went to drive the 4 pill I wired it to 12v out of the dash, only dose about 50w wired like that, I did wire it to Batt and drive full 100w into the 4 pill for a very short key and it only hit 200. Big orange cap is .3ohms, same with the caps on the transformer, the small caps down solderd on the pills show open loop. MR BBI replied and said “ o. That’s ruff”
I guess it's time for me to put in my 2¢ worth .....
It's obvious that the Input is not shorted to ground ..... the pictures have proved it. If it had been shorting at that point there would be no output from the amp at all. The only reason for it testing as a short is due to the input transformer's coil wires going to the ground (Class C).
I hope you're not trying to measure a capacitor with a resistance meter....
You say you've watched a lot of BBI's videos, so you must have learned something.
BBI's videos always have shown at least 2 (Bird) meters, one for Average and the other for PEP, noting that Average watts are always lower than PEP. Remember that output power on AM is Average and multiplied by 4 (4:1 ratio) would be the modulated PEP, so you may not be having any problems.
To be further confused, have you read:
* Note that where it states 500w input ..... that's the electrical power to run the amp, not the output from the amp which is 375w
Is the wattage, that you have told us, Average or PEP?
Since you have spent a lot of money that you may never recuperate, there's only one thing that no one has even mentioned .....
Take the entire amp apart to clean up all the flux and terrible solder work. Be sure to take a lot of pictures first and notes. Cleaning and polishing the entire board may eliminate any kind of electrical leakage caused by the mess that could be causing the power loss.
At this time all the same components should be checked against each other to make sure their proper values match ..... including the pills, with a proper test tool for an "hfe" of "62" (62 is the number that matches each pill, one pill could change with time so I've heard.
Before you take it apart, the best way to look at it is that each "2-pill section" and its components have to match the part-per-part values of the other "2-pill section" and its components. The only thing that keeps them working together is the input and output combiner components, a hot or warm output combiner resistor means trouble ..... the output combiner resistor should be as cool to the touch as possible, if hot it would mean a mismatch of components between pill sections.
The easiest way to test for problems would be to feel the temperature of the "output combiner resistor" (while transmitting), if it gets hot you have a component problem.
Apparently, you are doing all your testing in a truck(?), what is the SWR between the amp and the antenna? Have you tried a dummy load, in the truck, instead of the antenna?
Has this amp been tested on a bench with a power supply of at least 14.5 volts and proper amperage supply (you said that your volts drop under load in the truck?)? With the 2-pill amp pushing the 4-pill amp, this thing should be doing a lot more.
Being that it is a class "C" amp, a bias circuit should be added to make it usable on SSB.
Until that board is cleaned you may end up chasing your tail.
73 ..... and may you eventually find happiness with your amp .........
It's obvious that the Input is not shorted to ground ..... the pictures have proved it. If it had been shorting at that point there would be no output from the amp at all. The only reason for it testing as a short is due to the input transformer's coil wires going to the ground (Class C).
I hope you're not trying to measure a capacitor with a resistance meter....
You say you've watched a lot of BBI's videos, so you must have learned something.
BBI's videos always have shown at least 2 (Bird) meters, one for Average and the other for PEP, noting that Average watts are always lower than PEP. Remember that output power on AM is Average and multiplied by 4 (4:1 ratio) would be the modulated PEP, so you may not be having any problems.
To be further confused, have you read:
* Note that where it states 500w input ..... that's the electrical power to run the amp, not the output from the amp which is 375w
Is the wattage, that you have told us, Average or PEP?
Since you have spent a lot of money that you may never recuperate, there's only one thing that no one has even mentioned .....
Take the entire amp apart to clean up all the flux and terrible solder work. Be sure to take a lot of pictures first and notes. Cleaning and polishing the entire board may eliminate any kind of electrical leakage caused by the mess that could be causing the power loss.
At this time all the same components should be checked against each other to make sure their proper values match ..... including the pills, with a proper test tool for an "hfe" of "62" (62 is the number that matches each pill, one pill could change with time so I've heard.
Before you take it apart, the best way to look at it is that each "2-pill section" and its components have to match the part-per-part values of the other "2-pill section" and its components. The only thing that keeps them working together is the input and output combiner components, a hot or warm output combiner resistor means trouble ..... the output combiner resistor should be as cool to the touch as possible, if hot it would mean a mismatch of components between pill sections.
The easiest way to test for problems would be to feel the temperature of the "output combiner resistor" (while transmitting), if it gets hot you have a component problem.
Apparently, you are doing all your testing in a truck(?), what is the SWR between the amp and the antenna? Have you tried a dummy load, in the truck, instead of the antenna?
Has this amp been tested on a bench with a power supply of at least 14.5 volts and proper amperage supply (you said that your volts drop under load in the truck?)? With the 2-pill amp pushing the 4-pill amp, this thing should be doing a lot more.
Being that it is a class "C" amp, a bias circuit should be added to make it usable on SSB.
Until that board is cleaned you may end up chasing your tail.
73 ..... and may you eventually find happiness with your amp .........
Thank you for putting in your opinion, now, time to answer some of your questions, yes, the only tool I have to test any electrical components at the moment is a multimeter, i’m not an electronics builder I have been into CB radio a little over a year I wanted to step up my game a little bit and got this amp, the meter I’m using is a dosy, I do not believe it has a switch for Pep or average power, I assume that it reads average power. As far as the AM ratio I will do more research into that. Swr in truck is bellow 1.5 with no amp, just over 1.5 with amp inline, the voltage did not drop a lot when I transmitted it went from 13.4 to 13.3, but if brought the rpm’s up real high I saw a little bit more output from the amp not much maybe 20 watts at 13.5 steady. My truck still has factory pcm voltage reg. Now you mentioned heat, when I get home today I’ll have to do some testing with the cover off, but when I was originally troubleshooting the amp, I did notice the heat sink getting pretty hot under not super high load use, from my understanding of these amps that would be the pills transferring heat into the heat sink. As there the only component that makes direct physical contact with the heatsink.
Just saw where you said those resistors were 100Ω. Sorry. I saw xracers post, but I missed yours somehow. Crazy how the bands turned red, never seen that before.
JimboSlice,
Heat into the heatsink is normal that's why people use fans. The heat I was asking about is the heat (if any) to the big 100-Ohm resistor (soldered with a wire on each end) on the output combiner. If there is any heat there then you have a component problem between the two "2-pill sections", which is an unbalance between the two sections. Also, feel the heat on each pill for a difference between each after transmitting. The 10-Ohm resistors all look good which is a good indication of the pills.
Just transmit enough (on AM) to get the amp warm, then touch the resistor to feel for any heat and pills to feel for heat. There shouldn't be any heat on the resistor if all is right, this is one reason why these resistors burn up in many amps or look discolored.
There is a lot going on in an amplifier, mistakes, reading, and videos are the only way to learn. There are many people on this forum who have had problems, and with enough research and questioning, they overcame their problems and learned on the way.
You have to remember that this amp was not made for SSB, it's a competition amp that started life as an 8-pill Class-C..... Apparently, the lack of money made it a 4-pill at one time, and someone made it ugly ....... You can take the ugly out by taking it apart, cleaning the board, and putting it back together neatly.
It's totally possible that there is nothing wrong with your amp just seeing the Average power, once you see the PEP output may make you think differently. Watch the modulated meters (Average and PEP) on BBI's videos, then decide. He uses many radios to test an amp, each time adding more power to the amp.
Have you tested the amp (on AM) on the air to hear what others have to say?
Do you know anyone who can put it on a power supply and a dummy load with a PEP meter? These amps like to have a voltage of up to 15 volts or more to see a power increase.
It's all in the PEP output ..... why does the FCC go by just the PEP for max output power for Amateur Radio?
Hang in there it's not as bad as it looks, it's rough but time and money can fix anything ....... almost.
73
Heat into the heatsink is normal that's why people use fans. The heat I was asking about is the heat (if any) to the big 100-Ohm resistor (soldered with a wire on each end) on the output combiner. If there is any heat there then you have a component problem between the two "2-pill sections", which is an unbalance between the two sections. Also, feel the heat on each pill for a difference between each after transmitting. The 10-Ohm resistors all look good which is a good indication of the pills.
Just transmit enough (on AM) to get the amp warm, then touch the resistor to feel for any heat and pills to feel for heat. There shouldn't be any heat on the resistor if all is right, this is one reason why these resistors burn up in many amps or look discolored.
There is a lot going on in an amplifier, mistakes, reading, and videos are the only way to learn. There are many people on this forum who have had problems, and with enough research and questioning, they overcame their problems and learned on the way.
You have to remember that this amp was not made for SSB, it's a competition amp that started life as an 8-pill Class-C..... Apparently, the lack of money made it a 4-pill at one time, and someone made it ugly ....... You can take the ugly out by taking it apart, cleaning the board, and putting it back together neatly.
It's totally possible that there is nothing wrong with your amp just seeing the Average power, once you see the PEP output may make you think differently. Watch the modulated meters (Average and PEP) on BBI's videos, then decide. He uses many radios to test an amp, each time adding more power to the amp.
Have you tested the amp (on AM) on the air to hear what others have to say?
Do you know anyone who can put it on a power supply and a dummy load with a PEP meter? These amps like to have a voltage of up to 15 volts or more to see a power increase.
It's all in the PEP output ..... why does the FCC go by just the PEP for max output power for Amateur Radio?
Hang in there it's not as bad as it looks, it's rough but time and money can fix anything ....... almost.
73
Just got home and started transmitting with it, the output splitter does get hot when transmitting, I am touching the solder joint with the big circle cap and the output coax
Thanks for your replys they have been helpful, just did some more transmitting and yes, the resistors over the pill sections are heating up. I have made more contacts with my 2 pill. I did just contact 2500 in the great state of main he said I was doing 7 a units on his meter, I’m in Florida ( not gonna pretend like I know what an S unit is). I have had locals say my audio is bad occasionally using this amp.
As far as the heat on the pills go, I can really only noticed one of the pills, not getting quite as hot as the other three. Far left in picture, bottom of the heat sink is also pretty hot comparable to the first three pills.
Sorry, I split it up into three replies. I’m doing this on my phone again. But the resistors going over the pill sections did heat up.
If the output "splitter" (no that's the combiner) gets hot, yes then there is a problem. It could be a difference with the caps (that's the one big brown one) on each input transformer not matching. This is why I say that the two "2-pill sections" have to match part per part to be balanced.
You will need a Capacitance meter to confirm that all parts match, especially those two caps.
If you are getting bad reports from locals with the amp on it could be from the balance problem or the voltage from the truck not keeping up with the demands of the radio and 2 amps. How big are your cables going to the amps from the Battery? How old is the battery? You need to watch the voltage going to the amp with your meter to see how much voltage sag you have, there should be close to none.
You will need a Capacitance meter to confirm that all parts match, especially those two caps.
If you are getting bad reports from locals with the amp on it could be from the balance problem or the voltage from the truck not keeping up with the demands of the radio and 2 amps. How big are your cables going to the amps from the Battery? How old is the battery? You need to watch the voltage going to the amp with your meter to see how much voltage sag you have, there should be close to none.
sorry I thought the combiner was the spliter, what does the spliter look like where does it solder into? I will look into a capacitance
meter, Is that the same as the meter that tests the pf or ''puff'' of the cap?
I have an after-market voltage gauge I'm not using the one on the cluster, it drops from 13.5 to 13.4, also like I said stock voltage reg is limiting it at 13.5. When I was just out there testing for heat i was not driving the amp with the 2 pill. I have 8 gauge running straight off the battery to the amp about 8 foot each, can't remember what gauge the 2 pill is but thicker than speaker wire to give you an idea.
The "Splitter" is the other one that looks just like the "Combiner", one splits the input signal to each "2-pill section" and the other combines the outputs from each "2-pill section", and why it is so important to be balanced.
Yes, the meter reads Capacitance, be it f, uf, or pf.
Did you try to talk to anyone with just the 4-pill on "AM", and they said it was bad?
Yes, the meter reads Capacitance, be it f, uf, or pf.
Did you try to talk to anyone with just the 4-pill on "AM", and they said it was bad?
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