Power meter question

[Singularity35]

I have read that the power meter indication on your radio doesn't mean anything when you want to know how much power your output is.

I have seen a much bigger swing on the power meter(also on the power setting on the antenna tuner) when the stock mike was replaced with an amplified mike. Both meters averaged 50 watts with the stock mike and with the amplified mike it was more like 80 watts.

I know that meters without their own power are inaccurate but did the difference in the average power indication really mean nothing at all? No increase in output or some such?

Thanks in advance. I'm really curious about this.

 

[cwk]

I have read that the power meter indication on your radio doesn't mean anything when you want to know how much power your output is.

I have seen a much bigger swing on the power meter(also on the power setting on the antenna tuner) when the stock mike was replaced with an amplified mike. Both meters averaged 50 watts with the stock mike and with the amplified mike it was more like 80 watts.

I know that meters without their own power are inaccurate but did the difference in the average power indication really mean nothing at all? No increase in output or some such?

Thanks in advance. I'm really curious about this.

Curious to know as well. I wonder if the ALC isn't being true.

 

[vkrules]

Not that simple!!!
Think of it as setting your mic gain on the radio. Your just putting more audio in with an extra amplifier stage.You usually have to compensate by turning the drive down..Set drive to the ALC level recommended in the manual.
If set correctly! your PEP should not change, average however may have,the meter on your radio doesn't read PEP so power has not increased .
If mic drive was set to low and the radio was not making full power then yes the higher reading is more power.
To much drive will bring up the average and cause peaks to distort and is not making more power.
Check your alc meter.Are you over driving?. How does it sound.?
Even if you aren't overdriving to distortion you may have made the mic to sensitive, picking up to much background noise. i.e you breathing, people talking in the room ,dog barking down the street.
If you want to raise your" average power " use your compressor setting. This compresses the high and low frequency peaks so you can use a higher drive level.
Again don't set it to high.

 

[Singularity35]

Not that simple!!!
Think of it as setting your mic gain on the radio. Your just putting more audio in with an extra amplifier stage.You usually have to compensate by turning the drive down..Set drive to the ALC level recommended in the manual.
If set correctly! your PEP should not change, average however may have,the meter on your radio doesn't read PEP so power has not increased .
If mic drive was set to low and the radio was not making full power then yes the higher reading is more power.
To much drive will bring up the average and cause peaks to distort and is not making more power.
Check your alc meter.Are you over driving?. How does it sound.?
Even if you aren't overdriving to distortion you may have made the mic to sensitive, picking up to much background noise. i.e you breathing, people talking in the room ,dog barking down the street.
If you want to raise your" average power " use your compressor setting. This compresses the high and low frequency peaks so you can use a higher drive level.
Again don't set it to high.

Sorry for the late reply. I have been away from the desktop.

The setup I'm talking about isn't mine. No distortion on the audio, it is much louder and the aimed for sound is a wider sound(which is goal) than the stock mike.

The mike gain does indeed have to be lower and the mike is more sensitive but apparently the mod is well done because the resulting audio is not overdriven and is still very intelligible in spite of being wider band.

So back to the original question, no power increase with what was done?

 

[unit_399]

what model of radio, and what type of mic???

- 399

 

[Singularity35]

what model of radio, and what type of mic???

- 399

Icom ic725. Stock mike vs. a homebrew modded one.

 

[DainBramage]

...So back to the original question, no power increase with what was done?

you mistake a difference in heard received audio as a change in "power",... that is not always the case.

 

[Singularity35]

you mistake a difference in heard received audio as a change in "power",... that is not always the case.

I'm sorry I think I stated that query poorly. With different mikes, one stock and one modded with a pre amp, the power output meter on the transmitting radio's meter on the output setting was swinging more. When using the stock mike, the radio's meter was indicating output of around 50 watts. With the modded mike, output was around 80 watts. I know that the meter does not indicate PEP and is not that accurate.

So basically and increase in the transmitting radio's output meter does not mean an increase in output? I hope I'm stating my question properly this time. Apologies for not being clear the first time.

 

[Tallman]

Meters need to be self powered in a way that does not take power from the RF you are trying to measure. That causes too many variables to enter into the equation. Even with just a Dead key carrier frequencies can inductively and capacitively couple into areas that will affect reading. They are also frequency sensitive as well. I have at least 8 different power and SWR meters I use.

 

[Singularity35]

Meters need to be self powered in a way that does not take power from the RF you are trying to measure. That causes too many variables to enter into the equation. Even with just a Dead key carrier frequencies can inductively and capacitively couple into areas that will affect reading. They are also frequency sensitive as well. I have at least 8 different power and SWR meters I use.

I know that there are a lot of variables but I'm not looking for an accurate measurement of PEP. Just a simple answer to whether there is an actual output increase when the meter on the radio swings twice further. Maybe the answer is impossible to determine.

Thanks for the answers. I guess I'll have to get access to proper equipment just to find out.

 

[DainBramage]

.... Just a simple answer to whether there is an actual output increase when the meter on the radio swings twice further....

ALL other things being equal,.... then YES.

you CAN drive a radio past its rated output

 

[Singularity35]

ALL other things being equal,.... then YES.

you CAN drive a radio past its rated output

Thanks. Another question please. Is a radio rated at 100 watts ssb overdriven when it's showing 80 watts output?

Don't get me wrong, I'm the kind of guy that likes to keep my radios stock. I'm really just curious and kind of like to know these things.

 

[unit_399]

With the amplified mic, if you inject a continuous tone into the mic, does the meter "swing" up to 80, and then settle back down to a lower reading?? If you do the same thing with the stock mic, are the lower readings from each mic the same?? If this is the case, then perhaps the higher "instantaneous" audio from the amplified mic is punching the output meter circuit harder causing the meter to overshoot to a higher reading.
The only real way to tell if the output power is increasing is to look at the output on a 'scope.

- 399

 

[wavrider]

With the amplified ( modded ) microphone your output AVERAGE power will be higher.

Same as using a compressor in your radio, it just keeps your average output higher.

What matters most is that you are transmitting CLEAN audio.

You are not distorting your audio or splattering the bands.

So if all is good and it gets good audio and signal reports run the modded mic and have fun.

Amateur radio is fun, armchair technicians and wanna be experts tend to cloud the outcome and try to take something fun and make it a technical twisted mess.

If the modded mic works, if you like the audio reports you receive, then use the mic and have fun

 

[Singularity35]

With the amplified ( modded ) microphone your output AVERAGE power will be higher.

Same as using a compressor in your radio, it just keeps your average output higher.

What matters most is that you are transmitting CLEAN audio.

You are not distorting your audio or splattering the bands.

So if all is good and it gets good audio and signal reports run the modded mic and have fun.

Amateur radio is fun, armchair technicians and wanna be experts tend to cloud the outcome and try to take something fun and make it a technical twisted mess.

If the modded mic works, if you like the audio reports you receive, then use the mic and have fun

Thanks. The thing is, the modded mike gets excellent audio reports with the qualifier that "good audio" is defined as a bassy, wider band, and louder while still retaining intelligibility(not a lot of one more times too)in our local ragchew group.

Thanks again for your patience and forbearance guys.