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hy gain clr-2

No problem Eddie, I would love to cophase them but the cost of installing them might far outweigh the gain, when I have KL203p's that will give at least 10db gain possibly even 13 db gain, as opposed to 3Db at best from twin antennas.

I'd love to tear ooen one but I'm sure you understand my reluctance, as it would devalue them greatly and I honestly haven't decided what to do.

I am curious what Hy Gain Beams you have and how they perform, I've got a chance of a 533, the beams I've used before have been gamma matched, not beta matched, I've read the specs and they are aimed at max forward gain, but sometimes worth sacrificing some of that for rear and side rejection, which can make a greater difference than an extra Db or 2 forward, the rear rejection quoted looked to be on low side, I'd appreciate your inout or anyone else that's used one because another scenario I'm considering is a 533 under a CLR2, and a good quality coax switch, I'm sure my last beam had at least 10db more rear rejection and less forward gain and worked really well at shutting out crap from behind.

Glad I helped you on the M1 tube size, I scrutinised manual for you to see what I could see, just a pity it don't mention mounting bracket length, but I'm sure you could reverse engineer the length'ks now you know length of tube and the rest of other tubes to figure out what's short, that would be the size of the coil insulator, I think as I was saying to the DB that modelling without coil dimensions and masts/coax akes modelling a hit and miss afair as you guys are finding out, as its arguably the lossiest part of the dydtem its very difficult to achieve accurate results without it, also for me I hope there is enough extra tubing to make it a touch longer as I tune for 27 MHZ dead, to give me widest bandwidth across 26-28 mhz,

Seeing the coax spread to make the contact brought back memories of my earliest days on AM, back when I had a dv27 on a biscuit tin and most of my mums roasting aluminium foil over my bedroom floor, then added ground wires and finally a boot lid of a car at the end of my bed, worked surpisingly well befor I elevated to a dx27 helically would tuneable tip antenna, like a firestick and dv27 combined, I mind going to meet one of my mates local breakers who had a pretty shit signal to me considering I was less than 2 miles away and he was using a 3 element skysearcher beam, almost pissed myself laughing when I arrived to find the beam in his bedroom at a 45 degree angle pointing skyward and away from me, lmfao, those were the days, all sorts of crazy shit happened, I mind another day a friend had a sigma 4 and 20 foot steel scaffolding pole roped and chained to his tree, so he decided it was a security risk as would be easily stolen, quite common in Glasgow, He decided he wanted the whole fucking lot dropped down the hiuse drainpipe, but had no access to skylight or ladders, so me and Derek Bacon Runner took a brainstorm and decided to climb the fucking drainpipe, not the easiest job on a 20 ft high house, Derek went up first and went to aoex of roof, I was up in a flash and my mate who owned it passed sigma 4 and scaffy pole up to me and I gouided it to Derek, once we had it up on roof plan was I aim it down drainpipe and Derek would walk down roof whilst at same time walking up antenna, just as well both of us were small but strong, we got it right down in one piece in minutes, The most common question Dougie the owner got asked what mental bastards done that, lol, no-one ever stole it mind, lol, you'd need to be insane to try, also made his coax less vulnerable to jealous assholes cutting or pining it to short it, a very affective retard deterrent, lmao. Jazz 73
 
TBH Eddie, I haven't opened them and might never, If I do get planning permission to put 1 up at least I will let you know, sorry my conscience just can't deal with it just now, I have to think hard what I want to do with them

its been sealed since at least the early 80's, I'm very reluctant to open them, even if I just keep them for nostalgia, I have a Sirio Tornado I can throw up to get smashed up, so makes risking a classic a very risky proposition. They are staple sealed unlike most modern antennas which I'd happily rip open.

I can't say that I blame you if you decide not to open and install these antennas since they are a piece of CB radio antenna history. And I would also think that these unopened NOS antennas will probably increase in value in the coming years.
 
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I have a HG 105BA. It is 10 meters and I thought I could make it a little longer and get to the top of 11 meters at least, but there was not enough tubing in the kit. I built the kit anyway and took what I could get. It worked at resonance with a good SWR in the Free Band area.

I was not impressed with the performance compared to my 4 element yagi which I made out of an old Wilson Y-Quad and some tubing from my CLR2 that I wasn't using at the time. I messed with this yagi for a long time, but I think I got it pretty close in the end, and it performed very well at 29' feet, sitting about 10' feet above my roof. See bottom picture.

I think the 105BA beam had gain similar to my yagi, which was about 30' high, but it had less rejection off the back and side. It was very well built and heavy however.

HyGain 105 Long John.JPG

My Horizontal Yagis 1.JPG

BTW, I don't recommend placing an antenna on the roof of a home like I did above. It caused a lot of damage over time from me working on the flat roof deck.
 
I can't say that I blame you if you decide not to open and install these antennas since they are a piece of CB radio antenna history. And I would also think that these unopened NOS antennas will probably increase in value in the coming years.

Definately, they are only going to get more valuable, as more get opened less NOS left, I got another en route, and a couple of others including a 533 3 element, never tried one of them before but from manual looks similar to skysearcher beam, I'm very reluctant too use them as got a sirio tornado I can stick up and easily replace, these ain't as replaceable.

They don't make antennas like that now, unless you buy an I10k and possibly new penetrator, but its a ridiculous price when you can buy a NOS one for almost half the price and well made :) and won't be a massive performance difference in any of them Jazz 73
 
I know all about damage Eddie, I fucked my mums chimney going uo and down to 3 ele and mighty magnum 3, fucking wrecked it so bad they had to replace it with metal flues, was getting carbon monxide poisoned in my rom, I used to think my weed was good shit, wis dying on fumes, lol.

A couple of jubilee clipped steel wires at end of elements would have brought swr down, that's how I would have done it, or a tube a size smaller cut to short lengths and ends of Elements sliced and jubilee clip size down to the ends to made it more tuneable Jazz 73
 
I remember Bob showing me a thing that showed radiation pattern at different heights, if I recall about 5/8 wave mounting height gave primw take off angle and the more height you added more lobes developed :)
 
Just to keep you posted Eddie, Nice UPS man visited today

1 CLR2
3 HY Gain 418 1/4 wave GP
1 Hy Gain CB3 533 3 element Beam
1 Cushcraft ARX 450 70/446 Ringo Ranger

And 1 AVANTI AV101 Astroplane

Happy Days. ;) :D
 

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Sweet haul Jazz! The Avanti was popular here as the company was local to Chicago. A couple of the designers are hams and routinely check into nets here.

Yeah thanks mate,

it always pays to ask seller what else he has, sadly there was only one avanti left or I'd have bought me old mucker Bob 85 one too, as I know like me we've both been trying to get one for a few years and last seller I traced with them and Sigma 4's wouldn't post to UK, When they were out originally I couldn't afford one and they weren't about too often in UK, sigma 4, sigma 2 and pdl2 were more common, as we didn't have the tip height restriction that brought them about,

our laws allowed any height but above 10m I think it was you had to use a 10db attenuator that was built into all early uk radios, something I think they relaxed later, back then our max antenna length was 1.5m but radials could be fullsize,which brought about the thunderpole, basicly a starduster base with mobile whip, which was probably the best uk legal antenna ever under early restrictions as it wasn't far behind a starduster itself in performance.

then later 1/2 waves and 5/8 waves were allowed, believe it or not the sigma 4/vector 4000 is still technically illegal to use despite the fact those and silver rods, mighty magnums etc have dotted the uk since before legalisation in 81.

Not sure I'll ever open it as its still sealed like the hy gains, but its a bit of cb history i will treasure, at one time just about everything good about CB came out of Chicago, including the legendary here Cobra 148 GTL DX and all Avantis, was sad to see antenna specialists buy them over as both were incredible antenna companies and once A/S started doing Avanti's they just about stopped doing R+D on their own brand, which was sad as I'm a huge Mighty Magnum 3 fan as well as a Starduster M400 fan, but I'll always watch out for them and if I have the dough at the time will buy it, all I need now is for someone to find a Ham International Big Mac, or an Astro Beam/Super Scanner, a PDL2 would be nice too, fucking gutted I missed the Penetrators Mind.

73 Jazz
 
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Jazz, I do have a high regard for my AstroPlanes too. I talked about my Starduster, but I had an idea earlier that maybe you were referring to a A/P when you said, that something new and different was coming that I would like.

Just as a comment as to why I like the A/P design. In my experience with both my AP and my Sirio New Top One I recall seeing very little difference with my side by side comparison testing. I also saw similar results when they were standing alone.

When installed higher up...they both performed very well compared to my taller CB antennas too, even when the A/P tip was well below the tip for the taller antenna. That was remarkable to see happen. I think a lot of guys missed the boat on this design, simply by not even considering and antenna with such a short radiator and installing higher up.

Recently I noticed that Sirio does not list the NTO on their Website any more, so I think it too has likely been discontinued, just like the Old Top One was.

Personally, I suspect the OTO or NTO were never good sellers for Sirio, and that probably had a lot to do with the pervasive ideas touted that they were designed to only work well when installed low to the Earth.

Plus the advent and success of the 5/8 wave longer antennas in CB...didn't help either. We know the old saying about 5/8 waves...same o' same o'? IMO, the same is true about these two 1/2 waves in particular...regardless of how we see them fed. Just for hints, IMO the features of the SD'r also fits into this 1/2 wave category too.

Just some of my thinking about CB history.



The attached file below indicates why I think the NTO/AP are similar in spite of the difference in feeding the antennas. Just for clarity and if it is hard to read...here is the sentence in the file I highlighted:

A construcion wherein points c and d are electrically coupled, but where the circuitry is otherwise similar, will produce a similar result, i.e., a closed conductive loop may also be used.
 

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Nice haul Jazz! I guess the Starduster M400 will be your next purchase!

I've had Stardusters and clones, all were fantastic antennas and Sirio version is still on e bay over here as is their top one. may pick both up at some point, have a few things to get first, i think the astroplane is a shortened version of the starduster with cap hat making up the rest of top radiator, to get round you maximum tip laws at the time. not sure what my next purchase will be antenna wise, need another hp4000/mag145pl as in a moment of madness sold my last one, so that will probably be next,

i had planned to buy the cte 5's advertised on your e bay, but when i went back to purchase them they were gone, should have bought them when i first saw them, a 5/8 wave delivered from the states for 68 dollars to uk can't be bad, sadly i was looking at other stuff too at same time and they went, but shit happens. not as if i'm short of decent antennas, so can wait on stuff at right price,

just picked up 100m (328ft) drum of nos belden rg223 for 85 quid delivered, its proper RS component part number and rohs compatible so can't be more than 6 years old, military surplus, will do me, seeing as current ex vat price is £264,43, add 20% vat and your over 300 quid, so a bargain at £85 delivered, 1/4 new price give or take a quid or 2. twin silver plate braids and silver plated centre :)

managed to get an astatic 636l flag mike for my ss3900 eghp, American Spirit bling machine too, lol.

stations coming together, all i need is planning permission for a mast of biggest proportion i can get away with, or erect a temporary one that don't need permission, already sounded them out,and found imperial size 6063 t6 ones with .058" wall thickness from 2.5 inch downwards, that will telescope far better than our metric ones, so will be moving on a telescopic one soon, if i get permission for house it will do for portable hill ops of which I'm surrounded by. A 40 FT 40ft one should be ideal for a HY GAIN 418 GP (which i reckon will have a slight unnoticeable edge on starduster). they go down in 1/8 inch graduations so a top section of between 1.25 and 1.75" should cover most antennas,

i can always add to base diameter if i want the higher end at the top.or more height. Prices are reasonable too and sections can be bought separate should one snap in 1,3 and 6ft lengths, easy enough to buy a spare 2.5" or 2.125" base 6ft long and concrete it in a countersunk hole and leave it up hill, and just carry rest with me.hidden in a bush or long grass no-one will know its there. A quick guy it will be sound as fuck on even beams :) have also looked out 70mm plates and 150 mm M10 bollts that i could clamp it to a mast or fence/gate post already there or washing poles out back. Just build a flexible mast system. they suggest a 2-3" overlap, but i'd be happier with 6" even if it costs a bit of height.only .009" gap between sections so should be a real good fit and also useable to build antennas as well.

hitlist has a bit to go but not out of reach and always on the hunt for nos antenna specialist, hy gain and avanti twigs. i do love quality, lol. I have a sirio tornado too, so might try that up the hills as well, i usually just use the hp4000 as it works everywhere, but might get more success on line of sight with mast mounted twig thats bigger, its took me 4 years to gradually rebuild, but i'm getting there. Jazz 73.

I really need to stay of e bay, lol. impulse buying will be the death of me.
 
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lol, I know what you like Eddie,

i'm a huge fan of 1/4 wave gp's of all forms, even the humble uk cut down thunderpole with 3 full size radials and basically a 1.5m mobile top was a significant performer in its day, i believe the starduster, top one, astroplane and humble horizontal radial gp are all takes on the same theme and produce remarkably similar results that backs that up, even a wire one hung from a tree does damage, underrate them at your peril is my belief.

BOY DO THEY WORK DX,

as well if not better than 5/8 waves in certain conditions, if i had the choice of 3 antennas, would be a 5/8 wave, any of the ones just mentioned and a pdl2 or 3 ele beam as the flatside radiator,

probably prefer the beam so i could put the 5/8 above it easier, bigger beams/quads are nice, but a liability in our weather, stacked moonraker 6's would last 5 minutes in Glasgow, it would either get wrecked by wind or stolen (probably long before the wind got too it), lol, but ideal if you live in a nice sunny area with little wind.

Sadly i'm in a very exposed area at sea level on the Clyde Estuary just outside Glasgow, I have brackish low water and almost full salinity at high water about 500 yards from my front door and very little to protect from the predominately westerly weather systems we get coming in off the Atlantic.

73 Jazz


Jazz, I do have a high regard for my AstroPlanes too. I talked about my Starduster, but I had an idea earlier that maybe you were referring to a A/P when you said, that something new and different was coming that I would like.

Just as a comment as to why I like the A/P design. In my experience with both my AP and my Sirio New Top One I recall seeing very little difference with my side by side comparison testing. I also saw similar results when they were standing alone.

When installed higher up...they both performed very well compared to my taller CB antennas too, even when the A/P tip was well below the tip for the taller antenna. That was remarkable to see happen. I think a lot of guys missed the boat on this design, simply by not even considering and antenna with such a short radiator and installing higher up.

Recently I noticed that Sirio does not list the NTO on their Website any more, so I think it too has likely been discontinued, just like the Old Top One was.

Personally, I suspect the OTO or NTO were never good sellers for Sirio, and that probably had a lot to do with the pervasive ideas touted that they were designed to only work well when installed low to the Earth.

Plus the advent and success of the 5/8 wave longer antennas in CB...didn't help either. We know the old saying about 5/8 waves...same o' same o'? IMO, the same is true about these two 1/2 waves in particular...regardless of how we see them fed. Just for hints, IMO the features of the SD'r also fits into this 1/2 wave category too.

Just some of my thinking about CB history.



The attached file below indicates why I think the NTO/AP are similar in spite of the difference in feeding the antennas. Just for clarity and if it is hard to read...here is the sentence in the file I highlighted:
 
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