Just for the arguments sake

[weatherman49]

OK here goes just turned my scanner to the 28 to 30 mhz band I will leave it there for the next week to see if there is any activity in MY area!! I'll let ya know I am in the El Dorado AR (Union County) area I would make a challange to the rest with scanners or radios caple of recieving these freq's to scan and note any transmissions! NO transmitting just listn" after the week wich I will end on Sept 12 post your findings for YOUR area!! No arguing over what is and is not legal just an honest report to your areas 10m transmissions!!

 

[N8YX]

Go read my reply in one of the other sections.

To summarize...in two years, I've heard:

One (1) conversation on 28.085 between two truckers.

A lot of Spanish-speaking ops in the 28.300-28.350 area who may or may not be licensed amateurs. Regardless, they're not our (or the FCC's) problem.

I have no fewer than 10 HF general-coverage receivers online at any one given time. Most of those are computer-controllable; a few are currently set to search the 10M band and record the results...but they've not picked up anything lately which is worth writing home about.

When mobile I usually have an HF transceiver with me and will work 10 and/or 12M. Same deal; nothing out of the ordinary.

IMHO, those who needed to 'get the message' have gotten it and have moved on. Hint: Look below 26.965...

 

[weatherman49]

Monitored from post time until around 12 dead quite!

This is just a test remember would like to know how much of this band is bieng used at all legal or otherwise!

 

[CDX8412]

the 10 meter amateur band can be active in one area, and quiet in another. When the band opens up, you can hear a lot of activity, whether it is hams working DX or just the usual local QSOs that are now making it into your receiver.

I am about 150 miles away from New York City but I hear an FM repeater on 29.62 all the time and it is very active with NYC hams.

Locally, an amateur radio group has a weekly net on 70cm, 10m and 20m. There are also some hams that like to have a ragchew on 10m.

So while you may not have a lot of activity in your area, the band may be very well used in another. Just because we don't hear local chatter doesn't mean the band isn't in use.
As we enter a new solar cycle in the next few years, 10m DX activity will definitely increase and you will hear QSOs regardless of where you are.

 

[N8YX]

As we enter a new solar cycle in the next few years, 10m DX activity will definitely increase and you will hear QSOs regardless of where you are.

Sporadic-E openings are another propagation method that can boost activity on 10M. There are two main seasonal 'peaks': One in the springtime, and another in the late fall. A popular - though unproven - theory holds that localized Es is directly tied to regional ionization as a result of enhanced thunderstorm activity in a given area...which would tend to explain things quite nicely.

One would expect to hear a plethora of intruders during such openings...were there any illegally using 10M. I caught a huge opening to the ENE in the fall of last year; stations were packed like sardines every 10khz from Ch1 through 40 and beyond...up to 28.0 MHz. All activity just flat-out stopped there; not one ham to be heard. Which was a shame; those of us who are county-hunters or were looking for east-coast states (for WAS, etc) could have used the contacts.

Similarly, we worked ops from around the country on our 10M Field Day station until 1AM! Not one 'freebander' was to be heard ANYWHERE on 10 - in either the CW or phone subbands. (I was scouring the band, looking for contacts for the 'test.)

The band is open more often than many people realize...

 

[Lazybones1222]

This is sorta like the old witch hunts.

 

[N8YX]

This is sorta like the old witch hunts.

Or an old Chinese proverb which cautions against looking for dragons under rocks...

 

[yama junk owna]

This is sorta like the old witch hunts.

Naw LB. I think its a good idea cause it will show two very important things!

1- The so called big problem that CWM and a few others are always yelping about is not happening. ( Freeband CBers in ten meters )

2- The ten meter band is way underused by AROs !

Might not oughta let Uncle Charley find out about the results or he may want to sell some bandwidth to Nextel :? :roll:

 

[parkair]

As we enter a new solar cycle in the next few years, 10m DX activity will definitely increase and you will hear QSOs regardless of where you are.

Sporadic-E openings are another propagation method that can boost activity on 10M. There are two main seasonal 'peaks': One in the springtime, and another in the late fall. A popular - though unproven - theory holds that localized Es is directly tied to regional ionization as a result of enhanced thunderstorm activity in a given area...which would tend to explain things quite nicely.

One would expect to hear a plethora of intruders during such openings...were there any illegally using 10M. I caught a huge opening to the ENE in the fall of last year; stations were packed like sardines every 10khz from Ch1 through 40 and beyond...up to 28.0 MHz. All activity just flat-out stopped there; not one ham to be heard. Which was a shame;

The band is open more often than many people realize...

There is no 10 meter local ragchewing at all in Austin, TX. I have tried to get ARO's interested with out any luck. So I go down to the CB band, go figure ? ( or 75 meters )

 

[weatherman49]

Not huntin for Dragons and such just would like to know! bad and good! so far I have heard that much of the activity is local to an area or maybe twice a year dx the evetual piont I'm getting at is that if the band is not bieng optimized local or otherwise what would be so bad about the FCC opening part of it say 5 channels to the 11m group! that would lessen the congestion on the alotted 40 and still give the hams plenty of band for thier dx Don't Hang me just an Idea!!

 

[N8YX]

Not huntin for Dragons and such

That bit was meant for others - not yourself. You know...the ones who constantly harangue us with 'The Sky is Falling!' when it ain't.

so far I have heard that much of the activity is local to an area or maybe twice a year dx

Put up a large (6-el+) widespaced Yagi on a tall tower and watch the band come alive via backscatter and a number of other esoteric modes that most don't take advantage of. You'll find the band to be open a lot.

the evetual piont I'm getting at is that if the band is not bieng optimized local or otherwise what would be so bad about the FCC opening part of it

The FCC does not control 10M; it is designated by the ITU as an exclusive (primary use) amateur allocation worldwide.

say 5 channels to the 11m group!

Several points here:

1) One already has those 5 channels available to them....MURS/FRS, and GMRS.

2) If part of - or all of - the intent for the new 10M frequency assignment would be for use in 'working skip': There currently exists a 155.3-mi distance limitation (per your required copy of the Part 95 R&Rs...which you do have at your station, correct?) Any such arguments to the FCC and/or ITU claiming the need to reassign portions of 10M for a 'DX allocation' would subsequently be shot down before they ever got off the tarmac.

that would lessen the congestion on the alotted 40

I don't know where you're located...but...in the NE Ohio area, CB radio is utter deadsville. One 'local' channel...and Ch19 for the over-the-roaders...the 'Bowl. That's it. Much to mine and a number of other folks' chagrin, the area's 38LSB crowd has vamoosed. I would rather yak with the SSBers than deal with the noise-toy crowd which inhabits our one active AM channel.

How much more does one need?

and still give the hams plenty of band for thier dx Don't Hang me just an Idea!!

The problem is this:

Encroachment.

Some CBers would play by the rules. Many would not; they would operate out-of band as they do today. This wouldn't be an issue if the FCC would enforce its various rules with the same vigor that it did in bygone days...but that will never happen in these budget-conscious times. All of 10M would suffer as a result of the 'floodgates' being opened, and the ITU will not allow that to happen.

The issue has been hashed and rehashed time and again throughout the years. A number of CB organizations have opined that the region between 27.400-27.995 should be reassigned as a hobby band - but there are too many commercial and military users of that spectrum to accomodate such a shift.

Why not get a ticket and join in the 10M fun? A General-class license is not all that hard to obtain...and contrary to what you might read (here and elsewhere), not all of us bite. 8)

 

[N8YX]

There is no 10 meter local ragchewing at all in Austin, TX. I have tried to get ARO's interested with out any luck. So I go down to the CB band, go figure ? ( or 75 meters )

There used to be a number of 10M nets in the Akron, OH area...one still hangs on (28.337).

I keep a rig parked on 28.400 when I'm in the shack; that's the SSB calling frequency. Another scans the FM/repeater subband looking for activity while a third searches for signs of life in the 28.0-28.3 MHz area.

Give a call on .400 when the band's up...

 

[weatherman49]

The FCC does not control 10M; it is designated by the ITU as an exclusive (primary use) amateur allocation worldwide.
__________________________________________________

If this be the case then why can't or won't they do anything to the people who use this band without a ticket??

There currently exists a 155.3-mi distance limitation (per your required copy of the Part 95 R&Rs...which you do have at your station, correct?)

Yes believe it or not I do and have actually read them doesn't nessaraly mean I agree with them!

Kind of hard to make that limitation when the atmosphere is what determines the distance a signal travels right? even if all 11m Ops ran only 4w carrier there would still be skip under certain conditions!

spaeking of 4w carrier is that modulated carrier or not my copy does not specify? I can make any radio dk 4w but start talkin and see what happens!


This wouldn't be an issue if the FCC would enforce its various rules with the same vigor that it did in bygone days...but that will never happen in these budget-conscious times. All of 10M would suffer as a result of the 'floodgates' being opened, and the ITU will not allow that to happen

Again who is the last word here FCC or ITU?

 

[N8YX]

If this be the case then why can't or won't they do anything to the people who use this band without a ticket??

Enforcement is left up to the governmental telecommunications sectors of each ITU member country. In the U.S., the organization responsible for adherence to treatied band plans, the establishment of country-specific rules of usage and the enforcement of those rules is the FCC. Industry Canada handles Canadian telecommunications issues...analogues of these organization exist in every country that is a signatory member of the ITU.

The FCC can and will do something about intruders, as has been evidenced by the many NALs issued over the course of the past few years. Other countries' enforcement actions may be lax, or they may be very strict indeed. Europe is one place where you do not want to bootleg these days.

Yes believe it or not I do and have actually read them doesn't nessaraly mean I agree with them!

I've read our local and county laws as they relate to shooting a full-auto, silenced (Class 3) firearm in my backyard. I don't agree with said laws either, but I must abide by them if I'm to remain A) Out of jail; B) In possession of my firearms.

Kind of hard to make that limitation when the atmosphere is what determines the distance a signal travels right?

Very easy to determine...if you are on the east coast and hear a west coast station calling CQ, don't work him! (Personally, I feel that this is the silliest rule in the entire Part 95 section of 47 CFR...but...rules is rules, and I'm thinking as a Commissioner would when said person is considering a motion for spectrum reassignment.)

even if all 11m Ops ran only 4w carrier there would still be skip under certain conditions!

Correct. We call that 'QRP'. I've worked Australia on 10M CW using 5w to an old RadShack 5/8w vertical.

spaeking of 4w carrier is that modulated carrier or not my copy does not specify?

That is carrier without modulation. Modulate the radio to 100% and you should see a 3dB (2x) power increase...2w in each additional sideband, for a total of 8w.

I can make any radio dk 4w but start talkin and see what happens!

Are we talking type-accepted equipment here, or the so-called 'export' stuff? The math used to determine power output of a modulated AM RF waveform is fairly straightforward; see the example above. If your legal CB transceiver is correctly tuned, you should see no more AM power output than that.

Again who is the last word here FCC or ITU?

When a worldwide service allocation is concerned, the ITU has the last word - but leaves it up to member-states to govern their citizens' operation within the given allocation. Such allocations cannot be locally reassigned and are in fact protected from such.

On the other hand...if a spectrum segment is designated by the ITU as multiple-use on a country-by-country or a region-by-region basis (such as with 11M here in the U.S.), the member countries themselves can create band plans to suit their needs. Another good example of this is the upper end of the 40M amateur band. In ITU Region 1 (and Region 3, IIRC) it is a shortwave broadcast band, while in Region 2 it is designated exclusively as an amateur band.

 

[Sonwatcher]

Some historical background of the 155 mile rule posted by Moleculo in another thread-

Quote:
If you pose that question to Larry Brock. Field Engineer of FCC's Dallas Office, he would likely tell you the reason is one word. Interference. It is why the rule was initiated to start with--along with that bugaboo about CB as a hobby is against the law.


Sorry Jerry I believe you might be flat wrong about that. A couple years ago I did a little research on where the 155 mile rule limit on CB came from and why it was created. The best answers I found in my research is as follows:

During World War II, first all international ham communications was prohibited, then later all amateur activities except those specifically sanctioned by the military became prohibited. Why was that? Because of espionage concerns.

The cold war started & sanctions were lifted. At the time CB and Ham shared the 11m spectrum and CB required a license. However, there were already certain other HF frequencies where unlicensed usage was permitted, dating back to 1938. At that time, power restrictions had been put in place to keep the communications at a short distance to avoid crossing state lines. At the time, congress only had limited ability to regulate commerce, and stuff that crossed state lines fell within certain existing laws that would preclude the feds (FCC, in this case) from allowing unlicensed operation.

When what was the precurser to the modern CB service was created in 1945, the 155 mile rule was put into effect for two reasons: Because of concerns on the legality (at the time) of FCC's authority over anything that crossed state lines, and also continued concerns over espionage.

In 1959, Donald Stoner published a detailed article on how to design and construct a home made CB. At this time, it was not illegal to do so, and commercially available kits became available. By definition, CB at it's earliest stages was experimental. It wasn't until much later that the FCC decided to try and change that.

In 1977, when CB expanded from 23 to 40 channels, there was actually talk about expanding all the way to 27.995, but it was decided against to prevent intermod breakthrough to any 455kHz receiver that used the 455kHz IF stage.

Are the same concerns that started the 155 mile limit still concerns today? I doubt it. Maybe that's why the FCC doesn't enforce it. Remember why the FCC dropped the CB license rule? Becuase everyone ignored it, and they decided it didn't matter anymore since they already had a protocol all the way back to 1938 that could allow it.

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