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Loud Audio

roadrage

Active Member
I read a lot of reviews of radios, and all the big brands all say the same thing. Loud audio. Stryker radios are loud, Magnum radios are loud. Galaxy radios are loud, General Lees are loud, Cobra 29s have loud audio. Uniden 76XLs have loud audio. Connex radios are loud. If they are all "loud" doesn't that make them average? I mean, just because a cheap Midland 1001z is crappy doesn't make every other radio "loud". They can't all be loud. What radios really have an overpowering LOUD audio? I know different shops tune differently, so one may scream and another may not, so it is tough to get a good answer. Out of the box, what radio has the punchiest audio? I did hear a Stryker 447 in a local trucker's rig. It wasn't screaming audio like I expected. It literally sounded like every other CB, to be honest. It could have been a Uniden 510XL if he hadn't told me otherwise.

I should hook all my radios up and have some one go through them, one at a time. So I can hear each one on air and compare them. Which one sounds the loudest, clearest, etc.
 
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My CRE-8900 and Galaxy DX-959 are DTB 100% modulated loud but the 959 is louder.

He does great work. I have DTB tuned Grant XL, Galaxy 95t2, and Cobra 29.
I have heard them all with my wife talking to me on them, but never as a controlled comparison.

I think "Loud" audio is subjective to the listener. I had a uniden 520 with a power mic which everyone thought was a big export radio.

Hey binrat. Long time no talk to. I haven't been on in a while, until a few nights ago. I haven't even been playing much with my radios lately.

That is what I mean. I don't think I have ever thought to myself, gee that is a ridiculously loud radio, it must be a Magnum, or, that must be a Connex.
 
how can audio be any louder than 100 % modulation
Without adding distortion to the intelligence of the original audio signal you are absolutely correct in asking such a question and the answer is: there is no way.

Of course distortion is all relative to what we hear or think we hear as long as the actual bandwidth of the signal is modulated properly to negative and positive 100% (less negative in reality to keep the carrier from pinching off completely, usually -95% to be safe and avoid splatter and harmonics).

The problem is there are too many people out there that think over-modulation is the answer without understanding how that causes splatter or more occupied bandwidth to sound "loud" when in reality all they are doing is causing interference and reducing their total contact reach (more bandwidth = less transmit range at same RF power output).

The answer should be to restrict your radios to only 100% positive and 95% negative like they were probably designed to be as close as possible from factory. Running a power mic probably only overloads the built in automatic mic level limiter which will make you sound distorted and splatter over other channels.
You can use higher than 100% modulation as long as negative never goes below -95% but you are only adding distortion or what you call positive swing which is nothing more than a myth in the respect of increasing your range comparing PEP output of positive swing to zero swing at the end of the day.
In other words adjusting carrier level does nothing to increase range when going below zero swing.
Reducing average carrier to modulation (aka: positive swing) only does two things and two things only.. it introduces negative peak distortion (or round-off, roll-off to neg. portion) to your audio and allows your signal to drop under other stations at great distances for quieting or "blanketing " via carrier. This DOES not increase range.
This is an absolute fact and regardless what someone tries to tell you or even if you believe otherwise yourself you are only being fooled from real science of AM itself.

The proper way to get loudness, not occupy more than 1 channel (no splatter), and get the most out of your RF output for range is to run the radio the way it is meant to, or clip the built in limiter but ONLY IF/AND you are running outboard processing and know how to properly measure modulation levels on an oscilloscope.

That processing should be setup to run the mic into a compressor, then an audio limiter, then the limiter into a final audio clipper to sheer off what the limiter missed, and finally into an audio low pass filter to limit bandwidth to 10kHz or less and finally into your radio.

This is exactly how broadcast AM stations do it to get maximum loudness while still remaining in channel and in regulations except things get more complicated for them when introducing pre-emphasis required for AM broadcast radio.
Luckily with CB and Ham radio you do not need to worry about that extra headache.

BTW my first post, sorry for the info overload :laugh:
 
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Oh one more thing, I forgot to mention getting the symmetry of the audio so that most of the voice is facing positive also. This can help considerably with AM transmission and loudness. I know it has been said in another thread while I was lurking but you can add a switch to the microphone itself to flip the phase of the microphone element or just hard wire the microphone element +- wires backwards or normal and if you monitor on a scope you can find if your voice is more naturally negative or positive symmetry then flip the switch/wires to whichever position gives you the most positive peaks while watching a demodulated output on an oscilloscope.
Even without a scope you can just listen to yourself and may be able to hear a loudness difference.
Phase rotation works best before any audio processing so hit it right at the mic if you can.
 
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For those who may have got lost in my first few posts I just want to say that using a power mic does not increase your range. It only helps up to a point at which the built in AMC starts to reduce peaks of your mic.
That can increase talk power if your mouth is not up to the mic itself but it can have a negative effect of sucking up background noise.
Turning up a mic itself too high can override a built in AMC and cause distortion, splattering, and less talk range believe it or not. When you cause splattering outside of your channel of use that means you are occupying more bandwidth than the radio was designed to handle. That excess crap you spew on air divides up your bandwidth to literally spread it out which reduces your effective range!
Splattering = less range. For the love of God I wish more people realized this.
Yet we have idiots out there that think this is normal and the only cure is a linear amplifier to get more range... and there is where the cycle of idiocy begins.
Soon you end up with a person who splatters 5 channels just from overdriving the AMC then runs that sucker into a linear at higher power than the linear has headroom for and there goes another 10+ channels wiped out by said moron. Did they get out louder or farther? Yeah but what a waste of brain cells and efficiency. May as well run a spark gap transmitter lol.

Okay I am done.
/rant.
 
how can audio be any louder than 100 % modulation

Technically, I don't think you can. But at the same time, how else can you measure a degree of overmodulation if your measurement caps off at 100%? After 100%, you can see the wave form on the O-scope begin to flat top. We hear that as distortion. You can continue to raise the level of modulation, which just brings the low end up closer to 100% while the peaks don't rise at all. So saying that a radio's modulation level is 120% is really a misnomer, but there isn't really a better way to say it where most people would understand.
 
What I am saying is, take my Galaxy 95t2 and my Galaxy 929. I key up with my 929 and my signal is received by someone parked at X distance away. They are static (non-moving) and my audio comes through. Then I unhook my 929 and replace it with my 95t2. The 95t2 is louder and comes in, say, 3 S units higher. They are both set with 100% modulation. Of course the 95t2 is louder, it has a 35W carrier and is peaking at 140W; while the 929 dead keys 6W and peaks at 22W. But if I lower the variable power output so that the 95t2 has the same output as the 929, I'll bet the receiving station won't be able to tell a recognizable difference from one radio to the next. Which is the purpose of my thread.

I am sure that there are few radios out there that, even with similar/same wattage output, may be able to distinguish that it is louder than other radios. But which are they if they all say they're loud? And when I say loud, I am not talking about, I sound like I am talking with a wet bath towel in my mouth audio. I am talking about loud, clear, thundering audio. When you say, wow, that radio sounds goood!!!!
 
imho best way to get better /louder audio is get a mic with a built in speech compressor
or have one put into your radio. tuner plus 3, mfj makes one , and jcd 201 have
a compressor built into them. IF i use a power mic it has a speech compressor also
otherwise i just use noise cancelling mics
 
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If you really want big audio in AM you should get nice class E transmitter running couple hundred Watts carrier :)
Asymmetrical peak limiting and proper equalization is a must to get good results.
GL
Mike
 
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Technically, I don't think you can. But at the same time, how else can you measure a degree of overmodulation if your measurement caps off at 100%? After 100%, you can see the wave form on the O-scope begin to flat top. We hear that as distortion. You can continue to raise the level of modulation, which just brings the low end up closer to 100% while the peaks don't rise at all. So saying that a radio's modulation level is 120% is really a misnomer, but there isn't really a better way to say it where most people would understand.


It is entirely possible to have more than 100% modulation, in fact every AM broadcast station in the country does it every day. As mentioned before in this thread the key is asymmetrical modulation where the positive peaks are greater than the negative which allows the positive modulation to exceed 100% before the negative peaks hit 100%.The only reason the positive peaks flat top is because you run out of headroom in the audio amp. Exceeding 100% on the negative is what causes distortion by switching the carrier completely off and back on.You use an oscilloscope to measure the modulation waveform and determine the level of modulation regardless if it is greater or less than 100%. It is all in relation to the unmodulated carrier level. In my former life as a broadcast engineer I had a transmitter with modulation problems where it would SNAP! and POP! on peaks. After performing repairs we cranked the mod levels up to test it. We were running 100% negative and nearly 200% positive modulation. It was loud as hell but clean. Of course this was on a dummy load as anything over 125% on the air is illegal in the industry. :whistle: So mod levels in excess of 100% is quite possible to do however you need to know how to do it as it is not a simple matter of cranking everything to eleven.:blink:
 

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