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MFJ 259 used to tune amplifier ??

PLUMMER

Member
Sep 10, 2012
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Michigan
I am wondering if someone knows of a link, thread etc. on a how to and methods of tuning amps with a MFJ. 259. Especially combo boxes. Should you do the driver isolated or can you do it intact. The in between stage. I am wanting to balance several Texas stars and some class c units. Can or should you balance each transformer ? I have a few that show a bit of difference between them even though the wraps and wire appear identical.....tightness of wraps, length of wire less than a sixteenth off.

You know you have some amps that just never get hot when you think they would, and nearly brand new versions that get way to hot. I picked up a bit of gear and equipment, so I like to test components and learn what I can. And ship them off if they need expert repair.

Also interested in making LPfilters if its doable
 

A step by step explanation of how to do it? Don't know of any such site. I can say that you'd use that /259 like you would a 'grid-dip' meter. But, that's not telling you 'how' to do it, sorry.
- 'Doc
 
A step by step explanation of how to do it? Don't know of any such site. I can say that you'd use that /259 like you would a 'grid-dip' meter. But, that's not telling you 'how' to do it, sorry.
- 'Doc

I think MFJ sells a set of coils that will allow you to use it exactly like a GDO.
 
I'm only familiar with using the analyzer to adjust the input and output stages of a tube amplifier. In this case you replace the load impedance of the tube with a non inductive resistor and tune the circuit to match that resistance back to 50 ohms.

The theory does apply to solid state amplifiers however it's not very practical to apply. The reason is that it's easy to replace the load of a tube with a resistor since their impedances are much higher. Once you start dealing with transistors the impedance is often well below 1 ohm. Not so easy to accurately simulate.
 
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I am wondering if someone knows of a link, thread etc. on a how to and methods of tuning amps with a MFJ. 259. Especially combo boxes.

Sounds like risky business to me.
The detector diodes in the MFJ are very sensitive and using it to troubleshoot/tune an amplifier is just about the best way to damage the MFJ.
There are better methods for doing what you want. ( although I am not exactly sure what that is )

I am wanting to balance several Texas stars and some class c units.

Some of these you speak of are wideband and there is no tuning required.

I have a few that show a bit of difference between them even though the wraps and wire appear identical.

By what method or measuring device did you employ to come to this determination?
I think a more thorough explanation is needed to determine what it is exactly you are trying to do.
 
Thanks for the replies. I used an LC meter to measure . Just trying to make sure everything is balanced, or find out why there aren't. No big deal, that's why we have professionals to do this right. Just thought there might be another use for the 269.
 
I'd suggest you explain exactly what 'balancing' your multistage amplifier actually means, break it down into what you actually want to 'balance'. I think you will find that using an MFJ-259, or MFJ-269 can be used, but as also pointed out it will not be easy to do/use. There are other devices that make it 'easier'.
As far as destroying diodes, none of the above is done with power to the amplifier, it would be 'off'. And those 'no tune' circuits can only be constructed to handle a very limited range of impedance mismatches, and will only be 'right' for a much smaller range. They are just like any "one size fit's all" type thingy, you have to be at least 'close' for them to 'fit' anything. Most aren't.
A 'professional' will tell you the same thing... and before you ask, no, I'm not.
- 'Doc

- 'Doc
 
I'd suggest you explain exactly what 'balancing' your multistage amplifier actually means, break it down into what you actually want to 'balance'. I think you will find that using an MFJ-259, or MFJ-269 can be used, but as also pointed out it will not be easy to do/use. There are other devices that make it 'easier'.
As far as destroying diodes, none of the above is done with power to the amplifier, it would be 'off'. And those 'no tune' circuits can only be constructed to handle a very limited range of impedance mismatches, and will only be 'right' for a much smaller range. They are just like any "one size fit's all" type thingy, you have to be at least 'close' for them to 'fit' anything. Most aren't.
A 'professional' will tell you the same thing... and before you ask, no, I'm not.
- 'Doc

- 'Doc


As far as destroying diodes, none of the above is done with power to the amplifier, it would be 'off'.

On one hand you are indicating that you know how and what he is gonna do to 'tune' his amplifier, and you want to then quote his post and indirectly direct some comment towards me to not worry because he is gonna tune/balance his amplifiers with the power off; But in the same post you instruct him to tell you to 'explain exactly what he is trying to do.
That makes no sense.
How do you know what and how he is gonna do when he doesn't even know.
If he knew what he was doing he wouldn't be here asking how to do it and if the antenna analyzer is suited for that purpose.
That makes no sense.

I'd suggest you explain exactly what 'balancing' your multistage amplifier actually means, break it down into what you actually want to 'balance'.


He has antenna analyzer that can be very easily rendered useless if the detector diodes become 'over-dissapted.'
He is asking how to use it to 'tune and amplifier'; That should be enough evidence that he needs the proper instructions and all I was trying to indicate to him was to be careful cause if you don't know what you are doing you can damage your antenna analyzer.
Excellent advice I think.


And those 'no tune' circuits can only be constructed to handle a very limited range of impedance mismatches, and will only be 'right' for a much smaller range.


Another comment indirectly directed towards me when you have quoted his post.
I was talking about some of the Texas Star amps are wideband and there is no tuning required (and no device or provisions for that purpose) and how you manage to get 'impedance mismatches' involved is beyond me.
Most of your posts are so general in nature and so unspecific the only purpose they serve is to confuse.
You talk in circles way above your head.
 
RADIOOMAN,
None of that post was directed at you. It was directed as some misconceptions that are fairly common.
I am aware that I don't know the experience/knowledge of the poster. If you go only by that, and assume the least amount of knowledge, then the best thing that you could advise would be to not do any 'fixing' at all. I also have to assume that the poster will do some thinking about what -may- happen if he should do something 'wrong'.
Since an MFJ-259/269 is not meant to be used with power applied to anything it's used to test (other than what it applies it's self), it's a fairly easy concept that applying power with that thing connected will 'pop' a diode or some other component. (Figure an antenna analyzer is an 'inactive' device, not an 'active' one. If I remember correctly, that's explained in it's manual.)
Did I imply that I have knowledge about this sort of thing that I wasn't 'sharing'? Yes, I did, and I do. Am I 'depriving' someone of that experience without good reason? Nope, there are very good reasons not to try telling someone how to do something if you don't have a reasonable expectation that they can do whatever that something is. I also have knowledge in suturing wounds, but I ain't gonna try teaching someone to do that in a post! :)
So, what now? Should I apologize to you for hurting your feelings? Okay, I apologize. Should I offer advice about that? Nope, it wouldn't do any good, so I won't.
- 'Doc

(And before you ask, NO I am not a doctor of any kind. It's just a nickname. I didn't pick it, someone 'blessed' me with it a long time ago.)
 
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Wow, easy guys, I didn't mean to start anything.

I would never put an instrument at risk, don't have that kinda money to risk, nor am I that crazy. I've read several posts where experienced users have stated you can , as well as the manual. I was just looking for an informed first hand user that could help.
Any amp can be tuned period, some just require adding tunable devices and checking components. Ever see balancing resistors get hot when things aren't balanced, then some just install a larger watt resistor to mask the imbalance rather than finding the problem. When things are tuned well for the band of use, SWR is low, components don't get hot or as hot. Keeping in mind your not over driving the piss out of it chasing a watt meter needle. Same can be done with the TS line, which are notorious for having the tune on the high side, or lets say are a little more sensitive on the installs.

Lets just say my analyzer doesn't even get close to a hook up if I think someone might key nearby with some RF. I have no idea what it takes to smoke one, but I've read enough stories on static and RF unexpectedly taking a unit out. True or not I'm not taking the risk till I know for sure.

But thanks for your helpful opinions
 
Wow, easy guys, I didn't mean to start anything.

I would never put an instrument at risk, don't have that kinda money to risk, nor am I that crazy. I've read several posts where experienced users have stated you can , as well as the manual. I was just looking for an informed first hand user that could help.
Any amp can be tuned period, some just require adding tunable devices and checking components. Ever see balancing resistors get hot when things aren't balanced, then some just install a larger watt resistor to mask the imbalance rather than finding the problem. When things are tuned well for the band of use, SWR is low, components don't get hot or as hot. Keeping in mind your not over driving the piss out of it chasing a watt meter needle. Same can be done with the TS line, which are notorious for having the tune on the high side, or lets say are a little more sensitive on the installs.

Lets just say my analyzer doesn't even get close to a hook up if I think someone might key nearby with some RF. I have no idea what it takes to smoke one, but I've read enough stories on static and RF unexpectedly taking a unit out. True or not I'm not taking the risk till I know for sure.

But thanks for your helpful opinions

Ever see balancing resistors get hot when things aren't balanced, then some just install a larger watt resistor to mask the imbalance rather than finding the problem.

The balance resistors don't get hot because it needs "TUNED'?
Maybe the correct term would be "REPAIRED".

When things are tuned well for the band of use, SWR is low, components don't get hot or as hot.

What "THINGS" are you speaking of?

Same can be done with the TS line, which are notorious for having the tune on the high side, or lets say are a little more sensitive on the installs.

Not sure what that means.
I am less familiar with "LAYMENS" terms.
I have looked at almost the entire TS line and find no "TUNING" devices present.
There are no variable capacitors and no variable inductors with which to "TUNE" the amplifier.
There is no "TUNING" required and that function is not available.
They might be malfunctioning and need to be repaired but that is a different subject.

I see that some have a variable resistor for the purpose of increasing or reducing the output power or allowing a wider range of power inputs from the driving source.

For the purpose of balancing the cascaded stages into a combiner transformer I would use something as simple as a high imedance voltmeter that would respond to the frequency of interest.
Maybe you could construct one with some 1N34a diodes and a used Smeter pulled from a useless radio.
This should be utitlized in the differential input mode.
I would mount the diodes and resistor attenuation network along with alligator clips with very short leads all to the terminals of the Smeter indicating device.
If so constructed then with the proper spacing of the clips to correspond to the attachments points on the resistor and the proper stiffness of wire from the constructed assembly to the clip leads it would then be self-supporting and allow hands-off measuring and viewing and would be consistent with differential mode measurements.
I believe that you would want the meter to be full scale when there is a 500mv vrms (or less) level across the balance resistor.
(this amount of sensitivity would allow for viewing of voltage differences of the two output stages you are trying to balance to at least a 50 mv or less difference)
This would require a meter movement with at least 500 uamp sensitivity to minimize circuit loading.
This would require a 1k ohm resistor.
You are only going to be able to balance the cascaded circuits with the amplifier operating at a sufficient level of output so as to approach the conditions that are present in normal use.
 
You didn't start anything, don't worry about it.
- 'Doc

jeez, Doc,.... does everyone have "cabin fever" or sumpthin?^^ ab v c^^^^ ab v c^^^^ ab v c^^

I think I'll go play on the Zed where it is less vicious:rolleyes:
 
Wow, do I have to show/explain everything to you, sounds like you have far less knowledge in this area than I do. Which makes me wonder why you even posted. Oh....ya sounds like picking a fight or starting an argument.

If I have to explain laymen s terms to you , I don't know where I should start first. Just because there isn't a screw for you to turn or one listed in the schematic, doesn't mean it CAN'T be tuned. They do make these nice air variables or trimmer caps that you can install. You just better have a nice LCR meter like the one I have here to measure inductance and capacitance.

Maybe when you figure out what THINGYS that can be tuned are, you could add something of value and not clog up threads with how many lay terms you don't understand. Then you could answer questions instead of adding more of them. Your not one of those who googles the question to come up with a reply for a thread to look smart are you? I thought only I did that.......

Not a problem Doc, I am sure it's just cabin fever or this great economy that have us all in a nice mood. Or I hope it is......
 
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