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X FORCE OR FAT BOY?
- Thread starter Stellasstillarat
- Start date
Hmmm . . . why use a horizontal beam over a vertical antenna. . . ?
1) Because a beam antenna will keep incoming signals that are coming in from your side and from your rear - attenuated/minimized in your receiver.
2) Because a horizontal beam is even quieter still - works well with #1. Vertically polarized antennas like the A99 pick up more man-made noise because most man-made noise is vertically polarized. Having a horizontal antennaa attenuates a LOT of noise
3) Because even a 2 element beam has directional GAIN. Four element beams have 8db of forward gain. That is like having an amp WITHOUT even using an amp. It is called 'Effective Radiated Power'. Gain is your friend, and somthing that most vertical CB antennas cannot match no matter the design, quality, or build. Best vertical has 5-6db gain; but it is radiating equally in all directions. The beam can concentrate that energy in a given direction and get more gain with it. 20w acts like 300w at the receiving end; and so on . . .
4) Because some DX signals are not even heard on a vertical antenna! This will all depend on the way the signal arrives to your antenna. Some signals are vertically polarized, some horizontal, and some circularly polarized. The vertical antenna will hear the vertical and the circular signals, and the horizontal antenna will hear the horizontal and the circular signals . I can flip my antenna switch from my vertical to my beam and new stations just pop up out of nowhere - loud and clear. What one antenna doesn't hear; the other will. Why? Polarization.
5) Because beams are legal for CB; amps aren't . . .
6) Never, ever had a complaint from a neighbor when using a beam. Can't say the same for a verrtical when using the same radio/power. Not saying it is impossible, just less likely.
I could think of some more - given more time.
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I originally " liked" this post but had to unlike it because if memory serves me correctly doesn't. Ameritron caution about using that amp on 27 MHz due to possible filter damage or am I tbinking a different amp? ALS-500 maybe?
I was trying to give good advice (happens rarely) and you had to rain on my parade. I had never heard of that about the ALS-600.An old local (in Ontario) ran one for over a year with no problems.
Like I said I may be mistaken. It happens as we get older......you should know that. I just seem to remember such a caution about an amp but as I said it may have been the ALS-500 that uses the 2879 devices.
I just seem to remember such a caution about an amp but as I said it may have been the ALS-500 that uses the 2879 devices.
[QUOTE .i understand the benefits and performance differences between an omnidirectional and a beam I never disagreed. How many would love to own a beam over an a99? I know I would but, as I've said many times, my antenna and placement were totally based on sircumstamces beyond my control. If I had to I would be happy with an k 40 sitting on top of my picnic table. at this point im way ahead of the game and am exstramly happy with the way my station prrforms. That includes my a99 and, it's placement 13' off the grassy knoll. Im positive I saw a lone gunman hiding behind the a99 on the grassy knoll. I Thinkn it was the HOA president. If you know what i mean? I wish thr adminestator wold shut this post down, its deveoped more replys that are not so much answers to my question but lots of sarcssum and anseer that have little or nothing to do with the questions. obb, post: 499216, member: 8446"]Hmmm . . . why use a horizontal beam over a vertical antenna. . . ?
1) Because a beam antenna will keep incoming signals that are coming in from your side and from your rear - attenuated/minimized in your receiver.
2) Because a horizontal beam is even quieter still - works well with #1. Vertically polarized antennas like the A99 pick up more man-made noise because most man-made noise is vertically polarized. Having a horizontal antennaa attenuates a LOT of noise
3) Because even a 2 element beam has directional GAIN. Four element beams have 8db of forward gain. That is like having an amp WITHOUT even using an amp. It is called 'Effective Radiated Power'. Gain is your friend, and somthing that most vertical CB antennas cannot match no matter the design, quality, or build. Best vertical has 5-6db gain; but it is radiating equally in all directions. The beam can concentrate that energy in a given direction and get more gain with it. 20w acts like 300w at the receiving end; and so on . . .
4) Because some DX signals are not even heard on a vertical antenna! This will all depend on the way the signal arrives to your antenna. Some signals are vertically polarized, some horizontal, and some circularly polarized. The vertical antenna will hear the vertical and the circular signals, and the horizontal antenna will hear the horizontal and the circular signals . I can flip my antenna switch from my vertical to my beam and new stations just pop up out of nowhere - loud and clear. What one antenna doesn't hear; the other will. Why? Polarization.
5) Because beams are legal for CB; amps aren't . . .
6) Never, ever had a complaint from a neighbor when using a beam. Can't say the same for a verrtical when using the same radio/power. Not saying it is impossible, just less likely.
I could think of some more - given more time.[/QUOTE]
Rob I und
1) Because a beam antenna will keep incoming signals that are coming in from your side and from your rear - attenuated/minimized in your receiver.
2) Because a horizontal beam is even quieter still - works well with #1. Vertically polarized antennas like the A99 pick up more man-made noise because most man-made noise is vertically polarized. Having a horizontal antennaa attenuates a LOT of noise
3) Because even a 2 element beam has directional GAIN. Four element beams have 8db of forward gain. That is like having an amp WITHOUT even using an amp. It is called 'Effective Radiated Power'. Gain is your friend, and somthing that most vertical CB antennas cannot match no matter the design, quality, or build. Best vertical has 5-6db gain; but it is radiating equally in all directions. The beam can concentrate that energy in a given direction and get more gain with it. 20w acts like 300w at the receiving end; and so on . . .
4) Because some DX signals are not even heard on a vertical antenna! This will all depend on the way the signal arrives to your antenna. Some signals are vertically polarized, some horizontal, and some circularly polarized. The vertical antenna will hear the vertical and the circular signals, and the horizontal antenna will hear the horizontal and the circular signals . I can flip my antenna switch from my vertical to my beam and new stations just pop up out of nowhere - loud and clear. What one antenna doesn't hear; the other will. Why? Polarization.
5) Because beams are legal for CB; amps aren't . . .
6) Never, ever had a complaint from a neighbor when using a beam. Can't say the same for a verrtical when using the same radio/power. Not saying it is impossible, just less likely.
I could think of some more - given more time.[/QUOTE]
Rob I und
[QUUTE="wavrider, post: 499139, member: 9893"]So YOUR A99 is 8' off the ground?
You want an amplifier ( splatter box) that will dead key 900 watts?
Then if you operate your station like you install an antenna the amplifier will swing backwards???
Do your neighbors and yourself a favor, operate mobile with that 900 watt splatter box you want.
With your antenna at 8' to the feed point you will be the source of so much tvi and rfi.
OR MAYBE JUST MAYBE take the time to educate yourself and what a radio station REALLY is and find out what is the single most important part of your radio station.
IT IS THE ANTENNA!!!!!!!!!!!
It transmits your signal and also receives.
YES YOU can talk "SKIP" off of a wet noodle right now, nothing to do with an antenna it is a solar cycle.
Something you can google and study so YOU understand why your A99 at 8, is talking to Europe without an ROTOR.
YOU my 11 meter wanna be splatter box operator friend have a lot to learn.
Start with some standard operating principles. then Study antenna theory.
THEN decide if you need an amplifier.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/linearamp.html
READ the above article, it is all FACTS not hearsay.
Many have posted here giving sound advice and you have replied with off color remarks and straight out being rude, IMO.
If you going to ask a question that you really want an answer to based on sound operating procedures and REAL theory then be prepared for the answer.[/QUOTE]
You want an amplifier ( splatter box) that will dead key 900 watts?
Then if you operate your station like you install an antenna the amplifier will swing backwards???
Do your neighbors and yourself a favor, operate mobile with that 900 watt splatter box you want.
With your antenna at 8' to the feed point you will be the source of so much tvi and rfi.
OR MAYBE JUST MAYBE take the time to educate yourself and what a radio station REALLY is and find out what is the single most important part of your radio station.
IT IS THE ANTENNA!!!!!!!!!!!
It transmits your signal and also receives.
YES YOU can talk "SKIP" off of a wet noodle right now, nothing to do with an antenna it is a solar cycle.
Something you can google and study so YOU understand why your A99 at 8, is talking to Europe without an ROTOR.
YOU my 11 meter wanna be splatter box operator friend have a lot to learn.
Start with some standard operating principles. then Study antenna theory.
THEN decide if you need an amplifier.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/linearamp.html
READ the above article, it is all FACTS not hearsay.
Many have posted here giving sound advice and you have replied with off color remarks and straight out being rude, IMO.
If you going to ask a question that you really want an answer to based on sound operating procedures and REAL theory then be prepared for the answer.[/QUOTE]
I'M SORRY TO REPORT THAT STELLAS STILL A RAT HSS BROKEN HIS LEG AND HAD TO BE SHOT! PLEASE FORWARD ALL RESPONSES TO GREEN LAWN CEMETERY BROOKLYN NY. THANKS. DONNA, COMMON LAW WIFE. P.S. IF ANY BODY IS INTERESTED IN PLENTY OF RADIO EQUIPMENT PLEASE MESSAGE ME ON HIS WWDX PAGE IN CARE OF DONNA DOYOUWANNA. THANK YOU
Hate to say it; but a note of honesty might be best at this time. If you are under HOA restrictions and if they were nice enough to break the rules for you so as to let you have an A99 antenna up; then I wouldn't push your luck using an amp that may well bleed over into any neighbors electronics. Then, they may make you take down what you have.
If they are going to let you have an antenna; then you might do much better by running a vertical antenna that is no more unsightly than the A99. Something that has two times as much gain as an A99, like the Sirio GainMaster. If you considered buying a very expensive amp, that may prove to be an expensive blunder.
Remember? Gain is you friend, and that Sirio Gain Master will effectively double the gain and therefore make better use of the stock power that you have. The Sirio has ~5.5dbgain, and the A99 has about 3db. You should also be able to hear somewhat better with the Sirio, and it does not need any ground planes either.
All things considered? If I had to be in the position you are in; don't think any other choice would satisfy all of the restrictions, requirements, and needs for better performance than what you currently have. With one exception. I would not tip the boat; but I would opt for the Sirio.
If they are going to let you have an antenna; then you might do much better by running a vertical antenna that is no more unsightly than the A99. Something that has two times as much gain as an A99, like the Sirio GainMaster. If you considered buying a very expensive amp, that may prove to be an expensive blunder.
Remember? Gain is you friend, and that Sirio Gain Master will effectively double the gain and therefore make better use of the stock power that you have. The Sirio has ~5.5dbgain, and the A99 has about 3db. You should also be able to hear somewhat better with the Sirio, and it does not need any ground planes either.
All things considered? If I had to be in the position you are in; don't think any other choice would satisfy all of the restrictions, requirements, and needs for better performance than what you currently have. With one exception. I would not tip the boat; but I would opt for the Sirio.
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Got a smile at that one Stilla.
I do sympathize on the hoa dilemma.
Seriously though all things considered there has been legal battles fought and one by licensed amateurs to install and use towers where hoa said none were allowed.
So it can be done.
Others have used stealth antennas per say dipoles made of 24g green wire hidden in trees, dipoles in the attic, verticals mounted to plumbing pipe vents etc, so all is not lost.
Honestly the bigger amplifier is not going to help, except to see more swing in the watt meter.
You are limited by your hoa on antennas but as you have already proven where there is a will there is a way.
Some have even purchased 20 foot extension ladders, mounted there antenna on it and raised it up when they wanted to use the station. After they are finished they would lower the ladder and put away the antenna and the ladder.
Which ever way you decide will be best for you is the way to go.
I admire your determination to enjoy the hobby and really hope you continue to experiment and find what is best for your station with the restrictions placed on you by the hoa.
I have a friend that lives on the second floor apartment, he has a 20/10/15 meter fan dipole taped to his living room wall.
The 20 meter leg bends at 90 degrees on to the two other walls.
He makes all kind of contacts with a 100 watts from inside his living room.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Good luck
I do sympathize on the hoa dilemma.
Seriously though all things considered there has been legal battles fought and one by licensed amateurs to install and use towers where hoa said none were allowed.
So it can be done.
Others have used stealth antennas per say dipoles made of 24g green wire hidden in trees, dipoles in the attic, verticals mounted to plumbing pipe vents etc, so all is not lost.
Honestly the bigger amplifier is not going to help, except to see more swing in the watt meter.
You are limited by your hoa on antennas but as you have already proven where there is a will there is a way.
Some have even purchased 20 foot extension ladders, mounted there antenna on it and raised it up when they wanted to use the station. After they are finished they would lower the ladder and put away the antenna and the ladder.
Which ever way you decide will be best for you is the way to go.
I admire your determination to enjoy the hobby and really hope you continue to experiment and find what is best for your station with the restrictions placed on you by the hoa.
I have a friend that lives on the second floor apartment, he has a 20/10/15 meter fan dipole taped to his living room wall.
The 20 meter leg bends at 90 degrees on to the two other walls.
He makes all kind of contacts with a 100 watts from inside his living room.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Good luck
Well, when I was at work last night in "stand by"mode I googled for an hour. The only thing I could find was "24-30 MHz with MOD- 10MB Modification Kit for 10/12 meters."Like I said I may be mistaken. It happens as we get older......you should know that.
Now onto googling the ALS-500mx on my time at work today.
OK but don't bother. I just found out it was the ALS-1300. In the manual it outlines the max frequencies to use on each band. 12m covers 22-25 MHz and 10m covers 28-30 MHz. They say damage may result to the bandpass filters if operated outside that range which would include operating 11m on either the 10m or 12m positions. I knew I saw it somewhere on an Ameritron amp but couldn't remember until now. I learned so damned much stuff over the years it is now just a blur of mixed and mismatched facts.
That's my story and I am sticking too it.
Ok, I guess I will google something else tonight. Usually I get in trouble when I do. Not at the moment but when the package arrives at the QTH.
Usually I get in trouble when I do. Not at the moment but when the package arrives at the QTH. - No one is chatting at the moment.