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Socialism: An ever increasing reality and threat

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Socialism,do we really want it?

As the lost and As the ungodly push ever more away from God's principles that founded this nation they will naturally embrace Socialism,man's way to meet his own needs without God. On the other hand,The Church has the choice of either living under the curse which includes embracing the world's way of meeting their needs or learn to function according to God's word and prosper in every aspect of their lives. Choose you this day life or death,blessing or cursing. God says for us to choose life so that us and our offspring may live(the good life).
Nimrod was the first king to set up socialism which was not God's mandate for His creation.
Genesis 11:1-9 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
 
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From the Netherlands, where we have a social democratic society, i can assure you we are still free.
I own guns, make a decent income, pay my taxes, can be sure that if i get unemployed or ill or go into a hospital i won't go broke.
I can travel whereever i want to, do whatever i want, and enjoy the benefits of our society the 3rd largest investor in the USA with 17 million peeps, less as 1/20th of your country.
Most people here are religious, and don't feel we are not free in any way or form.

Having our system you need to go deeper in it, as just following the Fox news standard bull they pipe for their masters.
As Christians we will not leave anyone behind, they don;t need to beg or hold their hands out, they get their income from the social security we all pay into, including them when they worked.
My healthcare insurance is 105 euro a month, or 140 dollars a month for that i will never see a bill whatever healthcare i might need, no co pay, nor additional costs.
Our healthcare system provides healthcare for all for 1/2 the USA price and just as good.
And you cannot be refused for a pre existing condition.
All through private insurers that get closely watched by the government that they provide the care they are obliged to and for the lowest premiums.

Whatever bibleverses you (ab)use our system comes the closest to what the Bible ordered, we leave nobody behind.
Before just shouting some oneliners you might want to inform yourself about what you protest against, it is quite clear you don't know a lot exept as some Fox drivel.

Nothing personal, just a simple observation from the other side of the pond.


This is the system we as people chose for, and love to have.
Kids schooling is free of charge, we have 5 weeks paid through hollidays a year with one month extra salary as holliday money pay, maternity leave paid through, etc.
The lowest number of teen births in the world, the happiest children in the world, and about the highest productivety of working people in the world where the average working week is 36 hours a week.
One job pays all bills and a family can live on that comfortably.
Though in most families both parents work through subsidized childcare where people can have their kids looked after while they work.
 
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Being the link is from Fox News that is par for the course.
I guess anyone receiving VA disability compensation and free healthcare is a socialist too?

Until someone reads every page of the legislation and explains it word for word, I really have no opinion on the bill right or wrong.
 
The simple truth is that socialism only works until people figure out they can rely on the government to feed, clothe, and heal them. Then slowly the population will stop working as it is no longer required for them to do so. At that point, socialism fails, or becomes communism.

I don't rely on the bible for that info, I get it from another book. A History book. History will repeat itself despite our best hopes. "This time will be different" never is.

Some societies will last longer than others with a socialist government. It all depends on the culture of the people involved, but eventually it will happen.
 
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Justme said:
More rightwing rewriting of your history?

Your Founding Fathers were not for a reason separating the Church and State....The concept of the separation of church and state appears in the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention
Click to expand...

huh??? you really don't have a firm understanding of our Constitution and its Amendments.

the 1st amendment not only covers an established state religion, it also provides for freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to assemble, and to petition the goverment.

it was written BY the "Founding Fathers" about 200 yers BEFORE the Baptist message you cite.


whatever may be written at some Baptist convention has NOTHING to do with it.
 
@Justme

As I said, it's a culture that decides its own fate. We here in the States already have a huge amount of able bodied individuals living off the government tit.

I'm glad you are getting along with your government. Really. I'm not going to put down your particular situation.

It wouldn't work here however. More and more people over here want something for nothing, and the only way to support all of them through socialism is to tax the rest of us to the point of poverty.

Are we all paying our fair share? Ask Apple. Most are.

I am simply saying that eventually, people become complacent when their needs are provided for them. It takes longer in some cultures than others, but has happened throughout history, and will always happen. It's human nature.

For reference here, I don't rely on the bible for that info, and I don't listen to right wing or left wing radio. I don't limit my news needs to Fox News or CNN. I read both sides and filter the information through history lessons.

We become more informed, more technological, more healthy, and longer living, but we never fail to be human beings and will always use our biological nature to adapt to our new surroundings. So our reactions can be fairly easily and accurately predicted.
 
Wrong.

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The modern concept of a wholly secular government is sometimes credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" in this context is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper.

As i wrote before.
Echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams—who had written in 1644 of "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world"— Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."[1]

Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state."[2]

So, de facto as of this moment the State and religion are separated you have freedom for religion as person but also freedom from religion as person.
Looks like you have to read up a bit.


hookedon6 said:
huh??? you really don't have a firm understanding of our Constitution and its Amendments.

the 1st amendment not only covers an established state religion, it also provides for freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to assemble, and to petition the goverment.

it was written BY the "Founding Fathers" about 200 yers BEFORE the Baptist message you cite.


whatever may be written at some Baptist convention has NOTHING to do with it.
Click to expand...
 
(Edited for corrections)

The separation of church and state was implemented by James Madison and Thomas Jefferson because those who framed the new government in the U.S. neither wanted nor needed the influence of a foreign church-power to take control of the government by granting it power over the its people. In particular, the Roman Catholic church had done this in the past and still does it to this day. It was the very reason that the U.S. came into being, as the reach of that church did not extend its power into the new world.

But a government is amoral and has no real guiding principles if it has not learned enough from the historical past and the unchanged nature of fallen man, knowing both good and evil. Since the knowledge of evil is present in the human condition and does not serve the common good, any government so constructed must be mindful of it.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America".

Although not a biblical passage, it directly borrows from the moral laws of God without ascribing to any church or institution other than itself.

The so-called liberals are socialists that believe that the term 'general welfare' should be interpreted to mean that the government can hand out welfare to individuals. It was never intended to be interpreted in this manner. All functions of government are supposed to inure to the general welfare, said Thomas Jefferson. The common defense and general welfare of the United States, as the Constitution describes it, was supposed to refer to the beneficial functions of government for which the power to tax and spend was to be exercised. James Madison made this very clear in the Federalist Papers, Federalist No. 41. Only evil men that wish to change the backbone of this government to pay for votes and patronage would twist the words of the Constitution to mean something different. A free market economy with a 50% or greater tax cannot support a free market economy if burdened with the fallacy of 'welfare'. These evil men also do this to break the back of this very same government.

Those who wish to break the barrier of the church and state do so to bring this government under the direct control of a foreign government - even though they hide in the guise of a church. They have done and continue to do this for well over a millennia.

The banking system also wishes to do the same to this government, as it is more interested in world control through monetary debt control. The Federal Reserve is not 'federal' at all; it is a privately-owned bank system aligned with the European banks. Same bank that rules over the Netherlands where everyone is far more leveraged out of their citizenship by proxy of the debt owed to the banks. Their rights have all been compromised at the economic level. You are all already slaves by proxy of the bank. And the U.S. is getting close to this same situation now - if it is not averted soon.

Well did Andrew Jackson answer the deathbed question of 'Mr. President; what was your greatest achievement?' Jackson answered 'I killed the bank'. Under President Woodrow Wilson's term, the bank snuck back in in the guise of the 'Federal Reserve'. Thomas Jefferson was also keenly aware of the bank's interest to own this government. He also refused them.
 
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Your constitution is largely based on our constitution.

April 19 is Dutch-American Friendship Day, which remembers the day in 1782 when John Adams, later to become the second president of the United States, was received by the States General in The Hague and recognized as Minister Plenipotentiary of the United States of America. It was also the day that the house he had purchased at Fluwelen Burgwal 18 in The Hague was to become the first American Embassy in the world.

We were a Republic then, and he learned a great deal here about our Government.

Now we're a Kingdom, but the King has no powers we have the House and Senate here and the minister president is the head.

Same as you have.
Netherlands – United States relations are used to describe the relations of the United States and the Netherlands. The countries were described by former President George W. Bush as "brother nations" and by current President Barack Obama as "closest friends which friendship will never die". Obama has also said that, "Without the Netherlands there wouldn't be a United States of America as everyone knows it now".

Just to put into context the ties there are between the USA and the Netherlands.
All a bit lost in the fog of the centuries i think.

President Adams as Founding father, Adams came to prominence in the early stages of the American Revolution. A lawyer and public figure in Boston, as a delegate from Massachusetts to the Continental Congress, he played a leading role in persuading Congress to declare independence. He assisted Thomas Jefferson in drafting the Declaration of Independence in 1776, and was its primary advocate in the Congress. Later, as a diplomat in Europe, he helped negotiate the eventual peace treaty with Great Britain, and was responsible for obtaining vital governmental loans from Amsterdam bankers.

With the aid of the Dutch Patriot leader Joan van der Capellen tot den Pol, Adams secured the recognition of the United States as an independent government at The Hague on April 19, 1782.
During this visit, he also negotiated a loan of five million guilders financed by Nicolaas van Staphorst and Wilhelm Willink.[47] In October 1782, he negotiated with the Dutch a treaty of amity and commerce, the first such treaty between the United States and a foreign power following the 1778 treaty with France.
 
@ Robb,

I think we and the USA constitition saw enough evil from the past with governments where religion was intertwined in the Government.

Even without religion someone can act and behave humane and even in the spirit of the Bible.

We don't have a 50% tax here i make after tax 36K Euro and pay 18.5% tax enough for a very comfortable lifestyle.
If you add to your state tax, the local tax sales tax, etc you won't be far of our tax brackets.

Our banking system differs a bit of yours, most are now owned by the Government = us as citizens after the bail out's.

We allowed the banks to become too big to fail, driven by pure greed of the bankers.
42 Trillion dollar is stashed away in tax free havens from banks corporations and private people.
That is just because we let the tax holes exist and allowed that wealth to escape from paying tax in our countries.
There is the problem, that money in accounts won't generate new jobs, don't pay off country's debt in taxes, but we still allow them to go on.
Worse, we even subsidize the corporations and people to bring jobs abroad and their corporations.

Think what difference 42 Trillion dollar taxed at 30% would make in your country... what debt? poof, gone.

At least in the EU we now are working on closing the loopholes for banks and tax evasion.
Will take it's sweet time, but at least we are on our way.
 
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