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20 meter groundwave?

Highlander_821

Amour d'Ecosse
Apr 2, 2005
1,089
29
58
Central IL
A friend of mine and I built two identical W5GI "mystery antennas", and have installed them as flat tops at 50-60 feet. These antennas are showing an SWR of <2:1 on 80, 40, and 20 meters. 17,15,12, and 10 need a tuner, but work quite well, too.

We are both getting great DX results with just 100 watt transmitters on SSB phone. Now that I have mine reasonably high, I can seemingly talk to just about anyone I can hear on 20 and 40, and it seems really good on 80, too.

What is most interesting to me is what results we get when the two of us try to talk locally (we are about 25 miles apart). Using the two W5GI wires, we get about S7 on 80 meters, about S4 on 40, and just barely copyable on 20 and 10. Virtually nothing on 17,15, and 12. But when we switch to our 10 meter verticals, we are around S4-5.

I guess what seems weird to me is how poor we are on 20, but that we are good on 10 vertical to vertical, but poor again on 10 with horizontal to horizontal. I would have guessed that 20 would be better with such a relative close proximity to each other.

Thoughts?

BTW, we can talk 2 meter FM simplex at about S3 with a little hiss, using a 3 element cubical quad to a 4 bay collinear stick, both at around 35 feet.
 

"just barely copyable on 20 and 10. Virtually nothing on 17,15, and 12"

I found this on the net and may be the reason for the difference on the above bands-

Communications on 20 meters is normally via sky wave, although direct wave communications within a few dozen miles is possible. This holds true for 17, 15, 12, and 10 meters as well.
http://www.ab0pc.org/gen_info.htm
 
Something to consider too is how the Mystery antennas are oriented to each other. If one of you is in a null then signals will be way down. The verticals are omnidirectional.

The info Sonwatcher posted above is good as well. What most people do NOT understand is just what constitutes a TRUE ground wave.What 99% of the people call ground wave is NOT a true ground wave but rather a direct wave.Propagation via ground wave on HF is very limited to a few dozen miles at best and the higher the freq the shorter the ground wave distance.Just because a contact does not bounce off the ionosphere does not mean it is a ground wave contact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation#Surface_modes
 

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