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Antenna usable band-width

W5LZ

Crotchety Old Bastard
Apr 8, 2005
6,832
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Oklahoma
The usable band-width of any antenna is limited, it's never going to be very wide. That depends on what you use to determine that band-width and the limits you put on it. The 'limits' are usually determined by what a transmitter will find 'acceptable' so that it will put out full power, or at least a 'typical' amount of power. That amounts to how much variation in the 'load' that transmitter can have before it get's 'cranky' and starts doing less. That's going to be a sort of 'wide' range depending on exactly what that 'load' consists of. If that 'load' has a lot of the 'right' stuff and none of the 'wrong' stuff then the transmitter is going to be really happy about it and 'eat' it all up, make the 'cook' happy cuz it ate it all, you know?
Now it starts getting a little complicated because RF is AC, not DC. That means that there's a few things added to the recipe when that 'cook' starts cooking. The new 'ingredient' in that recipe is reactance. Consider reactance as a spice or flavoring. That doesn't always make something taste delicious, sometimes it can get to be too much and ruin an otherwise nice meal.
What's the big deal about reactance electrically? The biggest thingy is that it doesn't contribute to producing power/radiation. Resistance is the only ingredient in the recipe that does that, that makes a signal radiate. So, getting rid of any reactance ->in<- that antenna is the idea. (Another fact about reactance is that it isn't always 'bad', it depends on where you find it and what it's purpose is. Typically, it isn't something you want in an antenna.) One definition of resonance is the absence of reactance, leaving only resistance. There are two kinds of reactance, inductive and capacitive, '+' or '-'. That means if you got some inductive reactance present then add just the right amount of capacitive reactance, they 'cancel' each other and you got 'no reactance' (or it's neutralized). Another fact is that reactance is frequency 'sensitive'. The right amount (of either kind) changes with the frequency you want the antenna to work on. Complicated enough for you yet?? Hey, it get's more complicated so hang on.
Reactance, inductive and capacitive is present in any/all conductors when you're dealing with AC/RF. That means a straight piece of wire has them too. So the right length of wire can be made resonant on any frequency all by it's self, no inductance or capacitance need be added. That means that if that wire's length is too long for whatever reason, you can make it appear electrically shorter. Or, if it's too short you can make it appear electrically longer. (Did that light bulb just turn on?? :)) Every thing is right with the world, right? Nope, sorry, that's not quite complicated enough so here's some more complication.
Impedance consists of both resistance and reactance in an almost infinitely variable amount of each. The 'ideal' input impedance of an antenna is usually considered to be 50 ohms, which means 50 ohms of resistance 'R' and no reactance 'X' which means the thing is resonant and has a 50 ohms input impedance. The problem is that the 'R' in that equation is almost never 50 ohms or even close to it. That means you have to make it 50 ohms so that your transmitter is happy. How the #3\\ do you do that!? There are a number of ways, they all mean adding just enough reactance to make the thing -appear- to be the resistance the transmitter wants. But to keep the antenna resonant that reactance needs to be outside of the antenna, which means an impedance matching device/scheme at the input to that antenna. Geez, can it get any more complicated? Yes it can, and does.
I'm going to stop here. Time to go to work. There's enough here that once you get your head around it things will make more sense. Sort of...
- 'Doc

This doesn't pertain only to CB antennas, but to all of them!
 

screwdrivers and stepIR's are nice:D


Personally I wouldn't own a Steppir yagi. I don't like having a 10m yagi with full size 40m elements. The elements stay full sized regardless of the band being used. If the elements actually got longer and shorter and not just the beryllium copper strips inside the fiberglass tubing it would be much better. Also the element spacing is still a compromise not to mention the issues they have had with the motor drive units. Yes they may work well but for me personally the price does not warrant the performance trade off. I could have bought a Steppir for what I spent on a tribander for 10-20m and a dual band 12/17 yagi as well as a 6m yagi however if something happens I at least have some bands I can operate on.

I would however own a screwdriver antenna for my mobile application. (y)
 
I would however own a screwdriver antenna for my mobile application. (y)

It is nice having one. Running the High Sierra Sidekick but replaced the 36" whip with the 72" one. This greatly improved the lower band but I lost 6 meters (no biggie). Tuning is much nicer now as well, the dip is not as pronounced. Worked into Italy last night on the way home on 20.
 
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I am curious as to what caused you to decide to bring this up seemingly at random like this.

It is like you are answering a question that wasn't asked.


The DB

Looks like not only has Doc got a deal going wae the lord on changing the laws of physics, looks like he's slipped him a backhander for future visions of how even more physics can be dispelled by waffle.

ok own up, who wis going to ask this question? :sneaky2:
 
I think Doc had a thought pop into his head and he felt the need to post it for future reference

Lord knows there have been times I wish i would have posted or written down something when the thought came to mind ....with my steel trap mind ( to bad it is a sprung trap) it is almost required
 
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Typed up a nice reply, but am in the car using a 'guest' wifi access point and it didn't send the post. Going to have to wait till I get home. I hate when that happens...
- 'Doc
 
I asked a question last night when we all were talking about that 1/4 wave SS whip with the spring and short riser. I'm wanted to know how to tune a 1/4 wave SS whip on a vehicle to where it resonants and what is commercially available to make that happen. I feel that Doc is answering that call by educating those of us who don't know enough yet. I for one. Thanks Doc!
 
Looks like not only has Doc got a deal going wae the lord on changing the laws of physics, looks like he's slipped him a backhander for future visions of how even more physics can be dispelled by waffle.

ok own up, who wis going to ask this question? :sneaky2:


Maybe if you paid attention to ALL the posts on this forum and not tried to zero in on an individual just to shit on him then you would realize that this question has been asked several times in the past. Perhaps not as a thread opener but certainly in thread discussions about antenna installations. More than once someone has asked what they can expect for an SWR on an antenna install which means antenna bandwidth not just a spot frequency. Quoting an SWR figure for any spot frequency is useless. You need to know the entire range of freqs being used and the SWR over that range. It also helps to understand what controls that range and why some antennas are wider than others.
 
I'm thinking that we make the radio happy SWR wise by using a 50 ohm coax and tuning for the lowest SWR but to make the antenna 50 ohms at it's feed point and resonant is what I'm interested in. Mobile and base antenna related.

P.S. what can be made such as in the case of a 1/4 wave SS whip that attaches to it's feed point I raise it's 36 ohm impedance to 50 ohm?

Question:Will using a thinner insulating washer and/or using a different material washer change a 1/4 wave SS whip antenna's impedance at it's feed point ?
 
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I'm thinking that we make the radio happy SWR wise by using a 50 ohm coax and tuning for the lowest SWR but to make the antenna 50 ohms at it's feed point and resonant is what I'm interested in. Mobile and base antenna related.

P.S. what can be made such as in the case of a 1/4 wave SS whip that attaches to it's feed point I raise it's 36 ohm impedance to 50 ohm?

I have seen suggestions from others to use a (1/4 wave I think) short section of 75ohm coax,, like for dipoles and full wave loop antennas.
 
I'm thinking that we make the radio happy SWR wise by using a 50 ohm coax and tuning for the lowest SWR but to make the antenna 50 ohms at it's feed point and resonant is what I'm interested in. Mobile and base antenna related.

If you have an antenna with a matching network that can adjust reactance and impedance separately it isn't to hard. A quarter wave whip is known to have about 36 ohms of radiation resistance (the good loss). If at resonance it is presenting a 50 ohm impedance at the feedline the remaining 14 ohms or so of impedance will add up directly to ground losses. The "perfect" X=0 R=50 on the mfj analyzers are not always the best radiating point for a given antenna. Sure the connection between the feedline and antenna is happy, as is the radio, but the antenna is loosing some of that power that has been transferred to it as heat.

Another thing to remember, just because some of the RF is reflected back down the transmission line does not necessarily mean that power has been lost. If the transmission line has minimal losses most of that power will be re-reflected at the transmitter (or transmatch or amplifier) and come back to the antenna.


The DB
 
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