Does weather affetc skip?

[KingCobra_CDX882]

weather can effect HF ( or 11 meters ) several ways..
anyone who is familiar with skip knows this..

Yes sun weather has a lot of influences as well as earth weather

 

[GnG8d]

weather can effect HF ( or 11 meters ) several ways..
anyone who is familiar with skip knows this..

Everybody but the experts it seems.

Show me a publication or article written by somebody with credibility to back up your claim. The closest I've read to 11m signal skipping being related to weather is tropospheric ducting. And it so happens that tropospheric ducting requires high pressure, not low pressure, so that shoots the stormy weather theory in the ass. And besides, tropospheric ducting on 11m is a very rare occurrence.

 

[n8fgb]

Yeah but that's all groundwave propagation, not skywave propagation.

Goundwave occurs on the lower bands, not on 11 meter. What you are most likely seeing is some thermal ducting. Although not as much as V/UHF, it does occur. I've worked staions up to 200 miles away on 10 that way, then went up to 6 and did it again there.
Rich

 

[Klondike Mike]

Thanks for all the info. it just seemed that on rainy and overcast days here that it was just so quiet and clear but on sunny days I hear a lot more.

I've noticed the exact opposite here. Now figure that out!?

 

[hookedon6]

Everybody but the experts it seems.

Show me a publication or article written by somebody with credibility...

other than ducting (not common on HF) and minor attenuation due to heavy rain/hail, WX has NO/little effect on HF propagation.

Precipitation in the atmosphere has its greatest effect on the higher frequency ranges.
Frequencies in the hf range and below show little effect from this condition.​

this is a good read from a credible source:http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG...litary/library/policy/navy/nrtc/14092_ch1.pdf

​

 

[Henry HPSD]

Oke guys,

Here's what the pro's say about E-skip in relation to thunderstorm:

Start quote->

Though, scientist are still not sure what the cause is of Sproadic E propagation.

Some scientist at NASA do believe it has got something to do with thunderclouds.
Accoording these scientist the thunderclouds reach a hugh height and because of that the structure of the E anbd F layer are changed.

The F layer is supposed to be (at distance) not horizontal anymore, but at some locations practical vertical!
Because of this, the the gas of the F layer can be transported (temporarily) towards The E-layer.

This is seen as a plausible story due to the already known correlation towards thunder.

End of quote>

Regards,

Henry
All about antennas

 

[mackmobile43]

Mine sounded like mexicans again.

 

[hookedon6]

Here's what the pro's say about E-skip in relation to thunderstorm:

scientist are still not sure...

scientist... believe it has got something to do with....

This is seen as a plausible story...

pros?????
plausible STORY??????

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

I have had ( and seen ) this argument before...many times..

Weather does indeed have effect upon radiowaves..
Some types help and others hinder radiowaves going from point A to point B..

In discussing radiowave ability to go beyond line of sight.
Most ( not all ) refer to how space weather and sun weather as being mostly the cause of this...
Radio propagation is also affected by several other factors determined by its path from point to point.This path can be a direct line of sight path or an over-the-horizon path aided by ...Refraction is the change in direction of a wave due to a change in its speed. This is most commonly observed when a wave passes from one medium to another..

Therefore, whether we are discussing space weather created by the sun...in that there would be presence in a change in electrical charge or whether we are referring to earth bound weather such as simple rain..
When a radiowave passes through one type of element to another the way and or angle of continued propagating can be and often does change..

So for this discussion since everyone seems to agree how space weather and the sun can change the way radiowaves propagate, then there is little reason to speak about that...

Those who deny (not sure why ) how earth bound weather ( as simple as a lite rain on up to more complex thunder and or electrical weather storms )...How can you deny...that radiowaves that pass through one type of substance into and or through another would then create a change in the angle and or way that that radiowave continues to propagate...

It is indeed extremely simple as well as straight forward..
It does not even need to be part of a weather condition such as ducting, but a far simpler form or weather like even a simple shower...

This is something skip chasers or skip talkers have known for many years..

Ok Ok...so i am a Newby at it..i have only been using these methods for about 40 yrs...So what the heck do i know..

Oh yeah..i forgot....i have spoken all over the world on 4-100 watts
never having used an amp/linear and only simple cb (more recently a simple 706)and managed to work practically everywhere except either pole (regardless of what point we were in the 11 yr cycle )

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I have had ( and seen ) this argument before...many times..

Weather does indeed have effect upon radiowaves..
Some types help and others hinder radiowaves going from point A to point B..

In discussing radiowave ability to go beyond line of sight.
Most ( not all ) refer to how space weather and sun weather as being mostly the cause of this...
Radio propagation is also affected by several other factors determined by its path from point to point.This path can be a direct line of sight path or an over-the-horizon path aided by ...Refraction is the change in direction of a wave due to a change in its speed. This is most commonly observed when a wave passes from one medium to another..

Therefore, whether we are discussing space weather created by the sun...in that there would be presence in a change in electrical charge or whether we are referring to earth bound weather such as simple rain..
When a radiowave passes through one type of element to another the way and or angle of continued propagating can be and often does change..

So for this discussion since everyone seems to agree how space weather and the sun can change the way radiowaves propagate, then there is little reason to speak about that...

I think it's pretty safe to say the OP was talking about Earth based weather and it's effects. Space weather as it is called is not really weather as we call it. For the intents of this thread I believe we should be concerned about Earth based weather as after all when you check out the weather forecast you don't check the smoothed sunspot numbers and solar flux levels do you?

Those who deny (not sure why ) how earth bound weather ( as simple as a lite rain on up to more complex thunder and or electrical weather storms )...How can you deny...that radiowaves that pass through one type of substance into and or through another would then create a change in the angle and or way that that radiowave continues to propagate...

It is indeed extremely simple as well as straight forward..
It does not even need to be part of a weather condition such as ducting, but a far simpler form or weather like even a simple shower...

When was the last time a light shower made a change in the DX? For that matter when did a severe thunderstorm do the same thing? The latter may affect local comms however.The topic here is how weather affects skip (DX). While precipitation may cause a higher level of rain static on an antenna it does not affect DX in any way that can readily be recognized as such except for perhaps higher levels of static on the lower bands but that is more a noise figure thing and does not affect propagation. I have yet to see DX change when it rains and then change again when it stops.

This is something skip chasers or skip talkers have known for many years..

Hmmmmmm really? Been doing it for over 35 years and haven't noticed it yet.

Ok Ok...so i am a Newby at it..i have only been using these methods for about 40 yrs...So what the heck do i know..

Oh yeah..i forgot....i have spoken all over the world on 4-100 watts
never having used an amp/linear and only simple cb (more recently a simple 706)and managed to work practically everywhere except either pole (regardless of what point we were in the 11 yr cycle )

Length of time means nothing nor does the number of contacts. I have seen real oldtimers that have been on the air for 60 years and they still get things wrong.I have been doing it for over 35 years, never ran more than 100 watts either and have worked all over the world on bands from 160m up to 6m. I also had to study propagation characteristics in my quest to obtain a diploma in commercial broadcast engineering. I guess all the experts that literally wrote the books were all wrong too. So far my experiences say they were right. Perhaps you are just splitting hairs when you say "Yes, weather affects skip" when in reality those weather effects are negligible. The effects you suggest such as refraction etc are present on VHF and above but since this was posted in the CB section I believe we should be concerned with 11m and in that case the refraction due to a difference in air layers is pretty much non existent and can be attributed to factors other than what we call weather. I remember being able to converse with someone about 50 miles away using about 5 watts and a beam with solid S-8 or 9 signals each way just after sunrise. As the sun rose higher the signals would waver a bit and slowly fade to about S-3 which was normal for the distance covered. The signals changed but the weather didn't. The changes were due to refraction caused by atmospheric heating and not what we generally call "weather".

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

i have often noticed rain..lite or heavy...creating or enabling skip

 

[GnG8d]

...Refraction is the change in direction of a wave due to a change in its speed. This is most commonly observed when a wave passes from one medium to another..

Refraction at HF? Although a "skip" on the ionosphere is more of a refraction than a skip, the refraction that you are referring to doesn't happen at HF.

 

[Henry HPSD]

pros?????
plausible STORY??????

Well yes,

Who are whe when the scientist at Nasa and guys who predict propagtion for a living at broadcast services and for Military use are not certain?

Due to a friend in those circles i was able to tell you what goes around.

We all have "feelings" in relation to wheater affecting skip.
We all want to have that confirmed or be told that it isnt true...

All stories with no mather how much experience (including my own)
are on a "nice to know" base.
Facts about the fundametals behind it is what one needs.
Though in this case (thunderstroms in relation to sproadic E), there are no facts (yet) Nasa scientist "think" something.

As it "seems" the majority of the Pro's do "think" the same...

Regards,

Henry
All about antennas

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

i have often noticed rain..lite or heavy...creating or enabling skip

And all along I and everyone else in the world thought ionization of various layers in the atmosphere was the cause of skip. Whooda thunk it was related to rain?