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FCC admits it cannot search your home
- Thread starter Shioda
- Start date
No body, No crime. An antenna on a pole does not constitute a station being on the premises.
There is an old tv antenna in the attic of my house yet it is not connected to anything, case dismissed.
I also would like to read the rest. But what was stated about search and seizure doesn't appear any different than what already is stated on the FCC site that I posted earlier. But I do agree that the rest appears interesting.
I just don't get the point of this particular thread and its subject. What I contended from the beginning (and got my chops busted for) was that there is NOTHING in this transcript that is different. ALL RF emitters are subject to inspection. Sure, I can see where the public would be easily confused by the FCC suddenly wanting to enter their homes, and how they could misconstrue how it applies to consumer appliances. But I STILL don't see how ANYTHING has been altered, how this transcript denotes any change whatsoever. All it is saying (at least, to ME) is they have NEVER been able to enter a home without a warrant. Not in 2009, not in 1999, not in 1959! All the testimony shows is; they cannot just come into your home, perform an in rem search without a warrant; they couldn't in 1959. So WHAT'S the stink? They have always ONLY been able to ASK, ASK, ASK for entry. But there are regulations that apply in each case as to the device OWNER'S responsibilities as to inspection, and he MAY REFUSE to allow entry. It is the OWNER'S obligation to READ the rules that apply to his device! Ignorance has NEVER been admissible in ANY a court of law as an excuse. So he might get FINED------NOT for refusing ENTRY, but for refusing to permit the inspection which it IS the owner's responsibility to do so. The agent may even explain this difference. Again, what's the BEEF? Who knows, a smart agent, having previously gathered the evidence, may quietly obtain a warrant and ask a US Marshall to accompany him. That DOES happen! Their equipment they use to determine the presence of signals is top notch, they are DEGREED electronics engineers, and they KNOW what they are doing as well as how to develop a case that will stand up in court. They are NOT fools!
So even tho I may get chastized yet again, my question is still: What is the point of all this? NOTHING is different according to the transcript, tho I would say that one would need to have the entire thing available in order to acccurately assess it. IS that we are looking for ANYTHING in our hatred for FCC and our desire to "get away with something" to hamstring them so the law CAN'T be enforced? Are we looking at this transcript as some "new" loophole that didn't exist before, (AH HA! Now I can get away with my 2000 watt splatterbox because they can't come in?_
But if there WERE changes to FCC policy or Title 47 and someone moved in next door with a device that obliterated your CB's receiver, would that change your mind? If they then could do nothing to that neighbor, would that make it different? What do you WANT? The ability to do what YOU want WRT RF devices while your neighbor has no recourse against you? What do you want done DIFFERENT? You see, we so often want the law to apply to ME so long as it favors MY position. We snicker with glee at those who are just trying to do their jobs and provide relief (Cops, FCC agents) to the aggrieved, but you let something happen to US, and you never heard such a blood-curdling scream of outrage in all your life! Just be careful for what you ASK for!!!!:blush:
CWM
So even tho I may get chastized yet again, my question is still: What is the point of all this? NOTHING is different according to the transcript, tho I would say that one would need to have the entire thing available in order to acccurately assess it. IS that we are looking for ANYTHING in our hatred for FCC and our desire to "get away with something" to hamstring them so the law CAN'T be enforced? Are we looking at this transcript as some "new" loophole that didn't exist before, (AH HA! Now I can get away with my 2000 watt splatterbox because they can't come in?_
But if there WERE changes to FCC policy or Title 47 and someone moved in next door with a device that obliterated your CB's receiver, would that change your mind? If they then could do nothing to that neighbor, would that make it different? What do you WANT? The ability to do what YOU want WRT RF devices while your neighbor has no recourse against you? What do you want done DIFFERENT? You see, we so often want the law to apply to ME so long as it favors MY position. We snicker with glee at those who are just trying to do their jobs and provide relief (Cops, FCC agents) to the aggrieved, but you let something happen to US, and you never heard such a blood-curdling scream of outrage in all your life!
Just be careful for what you ASK for!!!!:blush:CWM
I think the stink was over that they either said or implied they could--enter your home...and if denied, which they could, would then levy steep fines, which they do, and make their subject undergoe extreme legal and financial distress to resolve the matter, whether actually guilty or not.
Unfortunately, isn't that *shread* of a transcript from a *CB/Export/Ham* radio case, which is what this thread was supposed to NOT be about?
Unfortunately, isn't that *shread* of a transcript from a *CB/Export/Ham* radio case, which is what this thread was supposed to NOT be about?
First of all - I'm not gonna bust your chops. I agree with MOST of what you said.I just don't get the point of this particular thread and its subject. What I contended from the beginning (and got my chops busted for) was that there is NOTHING in this transcript that is different. ALL RF emitters are subject to inspection. Sure, I can see where the public would be easily confused by the FCC suddenly wanting to enter their homes, and how they could misconstrue how it applies to consumer appliances. But I STILL don't see how ANYTHING has been altered, how this transcript denotes any change whatsoever. All it is saying (at least, to ME) is they have NEVER been able to enter a home without a warrant. Not in 2009, not in 1999, not in 1959! All the testimony shows is; they cannot just come into your home, perform an in rem search without a warrant; they couldn't in 1959. So WHAT'S the stink? They have always ONLY been able to ASK, ASK, ASK for entry. But there are regulations that apply in each case as to the device OWNER'S responsibilities as to inspection, and he MAY REFUSE to allow entry. It is the OWNER'S obligation to READ the rules that apply to his device! Ignorance has NEVER been admissible in ANY a court of law as an excuse. So he might get FINED------NOT for refusing ENTRY, but for refusing to permit the inspection which it IS the owner's responsibility to do so. The agent may even explain this difference. Again, what's the BEEF? Who knows, a smart agent, having previously gathered the evidence, may quietly obtain a warrant and ask a US Marshall to accompany him. That DOES happen! Their equipment they use to determine the presence of signals is top notch, they are DEGREED electronics engineers, and they KNOW what they are doing as well as how to develop a case that will stand up in court. They are NOT fools!
So even tho I may get chastized yet again, my question is still: What is the point of all this? NOTHING is different according to the transcript, tho I would say that one would need to have the entire thing available in order to acccurately assess it. IS that we are looking for ANYTHING in our hatred for FCC and our desire to "get away with something" to hamstring them so the law CAN'T be enforced? Are we looking at this transcript as some "new" loophole that didn't exist before, (AH HA! Now I can get away with my 2000 watt splatterbox because they can't come in?_
But if there WERE changes to FCC policy or Title 47 and someone moved in next door with a device that obliterated your CB's receiver, would that change your mind? If they then could do nothing to that neighbor, would that make it different? What do you WANT? The ability to do what YOU want WRT RF devices while your neighbor has no recourse against you? What do you want done DIFFERENT? You see, we so often want the law to apply to ME so long as it favors MY position. We snicker with glee at those who are just trying to do their jobs and provide relief (Cops, FCC agents) to the aggrieved, but you let something happen to US, and you never heard such a blood-curdling scream of outrage in all your life!
CWM
The ONLY time they would bring Federal Marshalls was if the FCC were refused entry on the first try. High penalties? Maybe - I suppose that would depend upon a first or second offense. Or - the nature of the offense. Do they have enough before the first knock on your door? Like you said, the FCC field agents are RF engineers with all of the sophisticated equipment one could possibly imagine. They are ready on the first knock. That's not negotiable.
Paranoia strikes deep; doesn't it? If someone is running a kilowatt station that is getting many local complaints; then they are duty-bound. Aren't they? If what someone may choose to do with their station is getting the attention of the FCC -then they will act.
You are entiltled you your rights - that has been my point all along. If you are a Ham running illegal equipment illegally and getting complaints from your neighbor, an OO, or another Ham - be sure that if there are enough of the same complaint they will show up. Yes; the justice system sees things one way. But don't reliquish your rights, as that is all you have! That is my point...
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The testimony is relevant because the FCC has a Fact Sheet on the website stating they have the authority to enter your house to inspect equipment and do not need a warrant because a warrant is only required for criminal cases.
EB - Inspection Fact Sheet
Q: The FCC Agent standing at my door does not have a search warrant, so I don't have to let him in, right?
A: Wrong. Search warrants are needed for entry involving criminal matters. One of the requirements as a licensee, or non-licensee subject to the Commission's Rules, is to allow inspection of your radio equipment by FCC personnel. Whether you operate an amateur station or any other radio device, your authorization from the Commission comes with the obligation to allow inspection. Even radio stations licensed under a "blanket" rule or approval, such as Citizen's Band (CB) Radio, are subject to the Commission's inspection requirement.
Q: Well then, if I am a low-power broadcaster and don't have an FCC license, they need a search warrant, right?
A: Wrong again. The FCC agents have the authority to inspect all radio equipment; even if you do not have a license, the FCC can still inspect your equipment. Section 303 of the Act gives the FCC the right to inspect all "stations required to be licensed." This language covers your low-power radio station. The FCC agents are inspecting the equipment, not searching your house.
EB - Inspection Fact Sheet
Q: The FCC Agent standing at my door does not have a search warrant, so I don't have to let him in, right?
A: Wrong. Search warrants are needed for entry involving criminal matters. One of the requirements as a licensee, or non-licensee subject to the Commission's Rules, is to allow inspection of your radio equipment by FCC personnel. Whether you operate an amateur station or any other radio device, your authorization from the Commission comes with the obligation to allow inspection. Even radio stations licensed under a "blanket" rule or approval, such as Citizen's Band (CB) Radio, are subject to the Commission's inspection requirement.
Q: Well then, if I am a low-power broadcaster and don't have an FCC license, they need a search warrant, right?
A: Wrong again. The FCC agents have the authority to inspect all radio equipment; even if you do not have a license, the FCC can still inspect your equipment. Section 303
of the Act gives the FCC the right to inspect all "stations required to be licensed." This language covers your low-power radio station. The FCC agents are inspecting the equipment, not searching your house.I do not have a station even though there is an antenna outside my home, case closed.The testimony is relevant because the FCC has a Fact Sheet on the website stating they have the authority to enter your house to inspect equipment and do not need a warrant because a warrant is only required for criminal cases.
EB - Inspection Fact Sheet
Q: The FCC Agent standing at my door does not have a search warrant, so I don't have to let him in, right?
A: Wrong. Search warrants are needed for entry involving criminal matters. One of the requirements as a licensee, or non-licensee subject to the Commission's Rules, is to allow inspection of your radio equipment by FCC personnel. Whether you operate an amateur station or any other radio device, your authorization from the Commission comes with the obligation to allow inspection. Even radio stations licensed under a "blanket" rule or approval, such as Citizen's Band (CB) Radio, are subject to the Commission's inspection requirement.
Q: Well then, if I am a low-power broadcaster and don't have an FCC license, they need a search warrant, right?
A: Wrong again. The FCC agents have the authority to inspect all radio equipment; even if you do not have a license, the FCC can still inspect your equipment. Section 303
...Q: The FCC Agent standing at my door does not have a search warrant, so I don't have to let him in, right?
A: Wrong. Search warrants are needed for entry involving criminal matters. One of the requirements as a licensee, or non-licensee subject to the Commission's Rules, is to allow inspection of your radio equipment by FCC personnel. Whether you operate an amateur station or any other radio device, your authorization from the Commission comes with the obligation to allow inspection. Even radio stations licensed under a "blanket" rule or approval, such as Citizen's Band (CB) Radio, are subject to the Commission's inspection requirement.
That statement is misleading. If this was the case; then they have effectively eliminated your right against illegal search and siezure. There are so many items in anyone's home these days that have FCC approval stickers on them. Any one of these items can be called into question by their 'authority'. A warrant is necessary to be specific, dated, and approved by a federal judge - in this case. Just look at your computer, laptop, telephone, radio, TV - even your toaster has a crystal in it. If they want to come in for whatever reason - they must have a warrant! Or - hit the road Jack.
Q: Well then, if I am a low-power broadcaster and don't have an FCC license, they need a search warrant, right?
A: Wrong again. The FCC agents have the authority to inspect all radio equipment; even if you do not have a license, the FCC can still inspect your equipment. Section 303 of the Act gives the FCC the right to inspect all "stations required to be licensed." This language covers your low-power radio station. The FCC agents are inspecting the equipment, not searching your house.
Wrong. They have NO RIGHT to violate YOUR RIGHT - unless you reliquish it by ignorance of the law! If you volunteeer anything - they will take the ball and run with it. Make them do their job right - they would know better anyway. If they are 'playing you' this way - tell them or anybody else that would do this - to take a hike!
A: Wrong. Search warrants are needed for entry involving criminal matters. One of the requirements as a licensee, or non-licensee subject to the Commission's Rules, is to allow inspection of your radio equipment by FCC personnel. Whether you operate an amateur station or any other radio device, your authorization from the Commission comes with the obligation to allow inspection. Even radio stations licensed under a "blanket" rule or approval, such as Citizen's Band (CB) Radio, are subject to the Commission's inspection requirement.
That statement is misleading. If this was the case; then they have effectively eliminated your right against illegal search and siezure. There are so many items in anyone's home these days that have FCC approval stickers on them. Any one of these items can be called into question by their 'authority'. A warrant is necessary to be specific, dated, and approved by a federal judge - in this case. Just look at your computer, laptop, telephone, radio, TV - even your toaster has a crystal in it. If they want to come in for whatever reason - they must have a warrant! Or - hit the road Jack.
Q: Well then, if I am a low-power broadcaster and don't have an FCC license, they need a search warrant, right?
A: Wrong again. The FCC agents have the authority to inspect all radio equipment; even if you do not have a license, the FCC can still inspect your equipment. Section 303
of the Act gives the FCC the right to inspect all "stations required to be licensed." This language covers your low-power radio station. The FCC agents are inspecting the equipment, not searching your house.Wrong. They have NO RIGHT to violate YOUR RIGHT - unless you reliquish it by ignorance of the law! If you volunteeer anything - they will take the ball and run with it. Make them do their job right - they would know better anyway. If they are 'playing you' this way - tell them or anybody else that would do this - to take a hike!
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to who it may concern, the antennas on my suburban and my house are for recieving purposes only, and besides that they were there when I got here.
what antennas.
I have to go.
what antennas.
I have to go.