FCC: Out of touch with the global community?

[bandaid kid]

Jerry, I guess I'm dumb and just don't get it. Either that or you are missing my point. How is using a LEGAL 4watt radio that is ALREADY transmitting skip going to harm the frequency ??? It is there whether you , I, or the FCC, or other nations want it there or not. I do not produce anymore interference than what I am naturally producing when I talk local. If the conditions are there I am being heard. The 153 mile rule does not turn off my signal. So how am I producing anymore interference than what is there because of natural conditions ? Mole, someone explain where I am wrong .

There is a big difference between dozens of idiots yelling for "SKIPLAND" and normal operating. Yes, we cannot control the atmosphere and skip conditions but we also cannot seek it out and exploit it on CB. Can't exploit is in any other communications service aside from amatuer radio.

My family operated a funeral business and we had radios on 30.88 nHx. During one sunspot cycle we had stuff coming in on our PL tone from Georgia and many southern states and western states. After my dad had talked with some of these stations only briefly enough to find out what was going on (no hams, never heard of skip or sunspots) the stations all agreed to use their monitor button before they transmitted. But nobody "worked skip" we tried not to interfere with ongoing comms. We were all busnesess with work to do.. Tjis was not a hobby operation but some contacts were made to work out a plan so that we would not interfere with each other. We cooperated with each other so that we could get work comms out and our work finished. There were 2 other businesses local on freq and dad never said what business he ran, or his name. Everything we said had a coded meaning to protect operations from being being figured out and then gossiped about elswwhere. Can you imagine a funeral director working skip on his lowband radio while transporting a body someplace? Not appropriate!

My dad considered CB to hook up with, but the traffic at that time (1963) was mostly chitchat and noise and not appropriate for the business. We went to the business band.

I guess my point is, just because there is skip active, it doesn't mean you have to work it or add to the noise level or transmit over someone. I was given a CB and mostly just listened to it. Wasn't interested in working skip. Local comms was all I was interested in. Makes me wierd, right?

73

 

[Sonwatcher]

I think you may be still in the legal aspect of your answer. Technically what interference is caused by talking local and a distant station is being heard and hearing me as if we were local and the 2 said hello. There was no added interference. The qso's were already in the atmosphere being heard.There was no added power and a totally legal setup in use. Where is the added interference ? It's already there by natural causes. Mole stated that the limit came into effect during the 2nd world war for security reasons not technical reasons or interference reasons. If this is the basis for the mile limit than it appears an outdated law.

 

[yama junk owna]

Sonwatcher the only answer you will get from CWM is that cb was not intended as a hobby service, but I hate to bust (yes bust not burst I'm a hillbilly remember) his bubble, ham was not or is today a hobby service, it was intended to further improvements in radio comms. We all know that may have been the idea to start with but things have changed in the many years that have followed since both services were founded. That gets us to the point that the FCC is out of touch with the world today, not only in radio but in a lot of other areas as well. My point with the 150 mile rule is simply this, when you make a rule knowing full well that it can't be enforced, that there is no way of stoping it the only thing that having a rule as that just takes away credibility from the agency. It would be no different than Bush saying we are making a law that the sun will not rise in the east, you see it's just plain stupid, and to say that people will not do it is just about as silly as the rule, I doubt if you had 100 people in a room with 100 radios and someone asked for a break cq whatever, would anyone ask how far away are you? And by doing even that they would be breaking the rule if the other party was say 160 miles away. It's just a silly unrealistic rule to go with many others that the FCC has come up with over the years

 

[Sonwatcher]

Moleculo wrote-

During World War II, first all international ham communications was prohibited, then later all amateur activities except those specifically sanctioned by the military became prohibited. Why was that? Because of espionage concerns.

The cold war started & sanctions were lifted. At the time CB and Ham shared the 11m spectrum and CB required a license. However, there were already certain other HF frequencies where unlicensed usage was permitted, dating back to 1938. At that time, power restrictions had been put in place to keep the communications at a short distance to avoid crossing state lines. At the time, congress only had limited ability to regulate commerce, and stuff that crossed state lines fell within certain existing laws that would preclude the feds (FCC, in this case) from allowing unlicensed operation.

When what was the precurser to the modern CB service was created in 1945, the 155 mile rule was put into effect for two reasons: Because of concerns on the legality (at the time) of FCC's authority over anything that crossed state lines, and also continued concerns over espionage.

In 1959, Donald Stoner published a detailed article on how to design and construct a home made CB. At this time, it was not illegal to do so, and commercially available kits became available. By definition, CB at it's earliest stages was experimental. It wasn't until much later that the FCC decided to try and change that.

In 1977, when CB expanded from 23 to 40 channels, there was actually talk about expanding all the way to 27.995, but it was decided against to prevent intermod breakthrough to any 455kHz receiver that used the 455kHz IF stage.

Are the same concerns that started the 155 mile limit still concerns today? I doubt it. Maybe that's why the FCC doesn't enforce it. Remember why the FCC dropped the CB license rule? Becuase everyone ignored it, and they decided it didn't matter anymore since they already had a protocol all the way back to 1938 that could allow it.

Definition of hobby: "An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure." (source dictionary.com) The government can't regulate one's intellectual interests, and according to existing rules, it is perfectly ok to talk on the CB "primarily for pleasure". So by definition of the word hobby, the FCC cannot regulate CB as "not a hobby".

BTW, another analogy keeps getting used: speeding. Does anyone know or remember why the 55 mph national speed limit was created? It was created by Nixon as a result of fuel economy concerns during the first oil embargo of 1974, and that was the ONLY reason.

Sorry Jerry, I still disagree with you. If DX causes harm on 27 mhz, then it also causes harm on 28 mhz. Many of the other illegal activities on CB bands do cause harm. But DX of and by itself cannot if it's considered perfectly OK only 1 Mhz away.

 

[bandaid kid]

I think you may be still in the legal aspect of your answer. Technically what interference is caused by talking local and a distant station is being heard and hearing me as if we were local and the 2 said hello. There was no added interference. The qso's were already in the atmosphere being heard.There was no added power and a totally legal setup in use. Where is the added interference ? It's already there by natural causes. Mole stated that the limit came into effect during the 2nd world war for security reasons not technical reasons or interference reasons. If this is the basis for the mile limit than it appears an outdated law.

No. Amateur radio was shut dow completely during WWII.There were security issues, true, but there was no limit on distance set when ham radio was allowed to restart.. Things were completely shut dow and many hams were recurited or hired by the military to teach radio operators. That's one of ham radios's reason for being.

I have read nothing in any form that indicates there was any limited distance rule in amateur radio. If there was one, I'm sure I would have read about it in the history articles of ham radio that I have read.. Ham radio will be shut down automatically under the War Powers Act if it happens again. The only stations that will legally be able to transmit will be RACES stations supporting war efforts. That's in Part 95.

CB and all other private radio services would be also shut down and any idiot stupid enough to stay on the air will be DF'd and arrested as a security threat and incarcerated. In times of war, such a thing wouldn't need a trial and it would not be tolerated.

I don't remember that there was a distance limit on CB back when I had the radio. I don't think that happened until CB exploded during the gas crisis. And THAT'S when the 55 mph limit was enacted and it was Carter, not Nixon, who was in office.

73

 

[Sonwatcher]

ok, then if you don't agree with Mole's findings on the rule change for limitation I go back to my original question that seems to not be able to come up with a technical answer. All I seem to get is "legal" answers. It seems the one's answering don't know of a technical answer. I have been told that if I had knowledge I would know what harm it would cause. That to me is a feeble answer since it was accompanied by nothing to put meat to the remark.

Again carefully-

How is using a LEGAL 4watt radio that is ALREADY transmitting skip going to harm the frequency ??? It is there whether you , I, or the FCC, or other nations want it there or not. I do not produce anymore interference than what I am naturally producing when I talk local. If the conditions are there I am being heard. The 153 mile rule does not turn off my signal. So how am I producing anymore interference than what is there because of natural conditions

Technically what interference is caused by talking local and a distant station is being heard and hearing me as if we were local and the 2 said hello. There was no added interference. The qso's were already in the atmosphere being heard.There was no added power and a totally legal setup in use. Where is the added interference ? It's already there by natural causes.

On a LEGAL radio
With LEGAL power
On the LEGAL CB band
With ALREADY NATURAL existing conditions.

 

[frmboybuck]

I cant believe someone is actually defending the 153 mile rule......Whats the harm?? I cant controll how far I talk on 4 watts and there is no rule on hearing 153 miles so what the problem??

 

[C2]

The reason for the rule is so you stop transmitting when there is skip.

They don't want your uneducated, slack jawed, redneck hillbilly speak crossing the border.

 

[Sonwatcher]

They don't want your uneducated, slack jawed, redneck hillbilly speak crossing the border.

This is true !

 

[bandaid kid]

ok, then if you don't agree with Mole's findings on the rule change for limitation I go back to my original question that seems to not be able to come up with a technical answer. All I seem to get is "legal" answers. It seems the one's answering don't know of a technical answer. I have been told that if I had knowledge I would know what harm it would cause. That to me is a feeble answer since it was accompanied by nothing to put meat to the remark.

Again carefully-

How is using a LEGAL 4watt radio that is ALREADY transmitting skip going to harm the frequency ??? It is there whether you , I, or the FCC, or other nations want it there or not. I do not produce anymore interference than what I am naturally producing when I talk local. If the conditions are there I am being heard. The 153 mile rule does not turn off my signal. So how am I producing anymore interference than what is there because of natural conditions

Technically what interference is caused by talking local and a distant station is being heard and hearing me as if we were local and the 2 said hello. There was no added interference. The qso's were already in the atmosphere being heard.There was no added power and a totally legal setup in use. Where is the added interference ? It's already there by natural causes.

On a LEGAL radio
With LEGAL power
On the LEGAL CB band
With ALREADY NATURAL existing conditions.

Why ask me? I didn't write the rule. I don't use CB. If there is a rule limiting distant communications, it obviously mean the FCC does not want CB stations working DX. For whatever reason it is on the books, it is on the books and the expectation is that it should be followed. If you don't think the rule is worthwhile take it up with them! If you want to ignore rules you don't agree with, that's entirely up to you. It's wrong to do so but it's entirely up to you.

That's all the answer I'm giving.

 

[Sonwatcher]

:?:

Why ask me?

I guess I asked you because you were responding to the discourse. The original thought was what would technically hinder the law from being changed.And I was asking hoping a smart Ham could give a technical answer without jumping in the legality answers all the time.

 

[Sonwatcher]

Ok, I did some searching and I think I found an answer that is more in line with what is actually going on and it has nothing to do with the argument of interference.International law stated that in order to communicate internationally on HF, code is required to be learned and tested. The Amateurs were upset when CB was allotted the 11 meter spectrum which is part of HF spectrum and allowed to talk voice without a license.This angered the Amateurs that used HF spectrum because they are not allowed to talk on HF until they took a written test and passed code. Now we are entering a new ball game.Now the International law states that it is no longer a requirement for international HF voice communication to have to pass a code test. Now the FCC is planning on dropping the code requirement for HF in the US.The 155 mile limit is a US law. Since the technicality that kept HF from legally being able to talk internationally is dropped elswhere and now soon here would now be a time to address the legal changing of this CB law ? The law that was based on International requirement is now gone.

Keep the same Type Accepted equipment and power regulations.

I would not be producing anymore interference than when I talk local.

 

[yama junk owna]

Hey guys I think Carter was in office in 1976-1980, the so called oil crisis was in 1973 I my be wrong but I'm close.

 

[Sonwatcher]

Bandaid Kid wrote-

the 55 mph limit was enacted and it was Carter, not Nixon, who was in office.

Ummm, fellas, the Arab oil embargo was Oct.of 1973 and Congress enacted the 55 mph speed limit in 1974 during the Nixon administration. Nixon resigned Aug. 9, 1974. His term was finished by Gerald Ford.

On January 1, 1974, President Richard Nixon signed the National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL) into law. This legislation established the 55 MPH national speed limit, and penalized any state that allowed speeds above 55 MPH.

http://www.nycroads.com/history/speed_LI/

 

[bandaid kid]

Bandaid Kid wrote-

the 55 mph limit was enacted and it was Carter, not Nixon, who was in office.

Ummm, fellas, the Arab oil embargo was Oct.of 1973 and Congress enacted the 55 mph speed limit in 1974 during the Nixon administration. Nixon resigned Aug. 9, 1974. His term was finished by Gerald Ford.

On January 1, 1974, President Richard Nixon signed the National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL) into law. This legislation established the 55 MPH national speed limit, and penalized any state that allowed speeds above 55 MPH.

http://www.nycroads.com/history/speed_LI/

I don't remember it that way, but if that is so, then i'm wrong.