Help needed - KL503HD DK 160 watts with 2 watt Radio DK?

[Mustang950]

Hello all,
I need help with a new 503HD. It DK keys at 160 watts with a 2 watt radio DK.
- I'm using a DAWIA 901HP meter set on Peak 200w or 2000w setting.
- No indication of swing.
- Radios used; K-PO DX5000 plus set at 2w DK (tried with 1-4w DK results the same), swings to 18-20w on my meter. Uniden 980 slight modulation adjustment, 2w DK, swings to 8-10 w. The results are the same for both radios=160w DK out of the AMP with no indicated swing.
- Using the 980 with a KL203 results in 25w DK out of amp with Peak of 110w with meter in peak/hold. SO this tells me the meter should function to indicate swing with the 503.

Any ideas why the 503 DK is so high out of the amp with a 2 W DK in?
The amp is new/received it a few days ago.
I will be contacting the seller later in the day.
Thank in advance for any assistance.
David

 

[Recon]

Hello all,
I need help with a new 503HD. It DK keys at 160 watts with a 2 watt radio DK.
- I'm using a DAWIA 901HP meter set on Peak 200w or 2000w setting.
- No indication of swing.
- Radios used; K-PO DX5000 plus set at 2w DK (tried with 1-4w DK results the same), swings to 18-20w on my meter. Uniden 980 slight modulation adjustment, 2w DK, swings to 8-10 w. The results are the same for both radios=160w DK out of the AMP with no indicated swing.
- Using the 980 with a KL203 results in 25w DK out of amp with Peak of 110w with meter in peak/hold. SO this tells me the meter should function to indicate swing with the 503.

Any ideas why the 503 DK is so high out of the amp with a 2 W DK in?
The amp is new/received it a few days ago.
I will be contacting the seller later in the day.
Thank in advance for any assistance.
David

Did you attach the required 12 volt power cord?

 

[Recon]

I have the same meter.
Start from scratch.
Set RF power to lowest setting.
Disable / turn-of the P.E.P Hold on the meter.
Turn-on the light switch.
Attach a 12 / 13.8-volt power source to the meter. NOTE: The PEP function will not function without the 12 / 13.8-volt power source.
Set the AVG / PEP button to AVG. Note: Button will be OUT.
Push in the 300W button.
With mic-gain off, depress mic lever to read the dead-key watts.
With the PEP Hold OFF, increase the mic gain.
Speak into microphone with your normal voice and read the average watts.
Push-in the 3KW button, modulate and/or whistle to read the PEP.

 

[Mustang950]

I have the same meter.
Start from scratch.
Set RF power to lowest setting.
Disable / turn-of the P.E.P Hold on the meter.
Turn-on the light switch.
Attach a 12 / 13.8-volt power source to the meter. NOTE: The PEP function will not function without the 12 / 13.8-volt power source.
Set the AVG / PEP button to AVG. Note: Button will be OUT.
Push in the 300W button.
With mic-gain off, depress mic lever to read the dead-key watts.
With the PEP Hold OFF, increase the mic gain.
Speak into microphone with your normal voice and read the average watts.
Push-in the 3KW button, modulate and/or whistle to read the PEP.

Thanks,
I'll give it a try.
So is it because I'm using the meter incorrectly or is the Mic picking up background? OR combination of both?
Trying to learn, I'll report the outcome.
Thanks much.

 

[Mustang950]

Did you attach the required 12 volt power cord?

Yes,

 

[Recon]

Thanks,
I'll give it a try.
So is it because I'm using the meter incorrectly or is the Mic picking up background? OR combination of both?
Trying to learn, I'll report the outcome.
Thanks much.

Oops!
Be sure to leave the PEP Hold OFF and push-in the PEP button to check the PEP. Do not be concerned with the PEP Hold function at this time.
Yes, if you have the mic gain on and if you are using an amplified (power) mic, be sure they are in the lowest and/or off position. You may receive reports that your radio will sound better without using an amplified mic with the amp.
Good luck and don't "toast" your equipment.

 

[Mustang950]

Oops!
Be sure to leave the PEP Hold OFF and push-in the PEP button to check the PEP. Do not be concerned with the PEP Hold function at this time.
Yes, if you have the mic gain on and if you are using an amplified (power) mic, be sure they are in the lowest and/or off position. You may receive reports that your radio will sound better without using an amplified mic with the amp.
Good luck and don't "toast" your equipment.

OK,
Round #2
Using channel #1 AM for this testing. SWR through the AMP (AMP Off) 1.1-1.2 , For reference, CH40 SWR 1.4.
My 901 scales are 20w, 200w, 2KW
- Using my K-PO DX5000Plus radio, mic gain adjustable off-63.
- AMP setting #3 throughout testing.
- Radio DK 1.5w throughout testing.

Mic gain OFF with standard Mic.
Key with no voice or other sounds to trigger mic.
AVE Power (200W setting) 170w forward pegged reverse.
AVE Power (2KW setting) 170w forward, 120w reflected (1.2 indicated X 100 for 2KW scale).
- Mic gain to #1, no change 170w Forward, 120w reflected.
- Mic gain to #30, no change 170w Forward, 120w reflected.
- Mic gain to #63, no change 170w Forward, 120w reflected.
PEP, no hold
Reverse power does not indicate/move in PEP.
- Mic gain 63
- Power Mic, my normal setting, 1/4 scale
-- 170w to 160w with attempting to modulate with "Audio"
PEP, hold
- Mic gain 63
- Power Mic, my normal setting, 1/4 scale
-- 170w to 185-190w with attempting to modulate with "Audio"

Can it possibly be dead keying at 160-175w (depending on AMP setting) and swinging only 15-20 watts?
I'm at least as confused now as I was before.
Thanks again for the help.

 

[Recon]

OK,
Round #2
Using channel #1 AM for this testing. SWR through the AMP (AMP Off) 1.1-1.2 , For reference, CH40 SWR 1.4.
My 901 scales are 20w, 200w, 2KW
- Using my K-PO DX5000Plus radio, mic gain adjustable off-63.
- AMP setting #3 throughout testing.
- Radio DK 1.5w throughout testing.

Mic gain OFF with standard Mic.
Key with no voice or other sounds to trigger mic.
AVE Power (200W setting) 170w forward pegged reverse.
AVE Power (2KW setting) 170w forward, 120w reflected (1.2 indicated X 100 for 2KW scale).
- Mic gain to #1, no change 170w Forward, 120w reflected.
- Mic gain to #30, no change 170w Forward, 120w reflected.
- Mic gain to #63, no change 170w Forward, 120w reflected.
PEP, no hold
Reverse power does not indicate/move in PEP.
- Mic gain 63
- Power Mic, my normal setting, 1/4 scale
-- 170w to 160w with attempting to modulate with "Audio"
PEP, hold
- Mic gain 63
- Power Mic, my normal setting, 1/4 scale
-- 170w to 185-190w with attempting to modulate with "Audio"

Can it possibly be dead keying at 160-175w (depending on AMP setting) and swinging only 15-20 watts?
I'm at least as confused now as I was before.
Thanks again for the help.

Is the meter installed between the amp and the antenna?

 

[Recon]

Hello all,
I need help with a new 503HD. It DK keys at 160 watts with a 2 watt radio DK.
- I'm using a DAWIA 901HP meter set on Peak 200w or 2000w setting.
- No indication of swing.
- Radios used; K-PO DX5000 plus set at 2w DK (tried with 1-4w DK results the same), swings to 18-20w on my meter. Uniden 980 slight modulation adjustment, 2w DK, swings to 8-10 w. The results are the same for both radios=160w DK out of the AMP with no indicated swing.
- Using the 980 with a KL203 results in 25w DK out of amp with Peak of 110w with meter in peak/hold. SO this tells me the meter should function to indicate swing with the 503.

Any ideas why the 503 DK is so high out of the amp with a 2 W DK in?
The amp is new/received it a few days ago.
I will be contacting the seller later in the day.
Thank in advance for any assistance.
David

Please excuse my bad manners!
WELCOME ABOARD!

 

[Recon]

It is time for the "pros" to chime-in to help.
The amp is a variable amp? Correct?
It was suggested to me to set and leave a variable amp at the maximum and set the RF on the radio at (example) 3/4 watt and don't touch the variable knob on the amp. Use the radio's RF power to set the dead-key to the recommended wattage.
I may be wrong, but from what I have read, the primary purpose of the variable amp is to reduce the input from the radio if the radio's RF cannot be low enough.
Maybe you need to reduce the dead-key on the radio lower than 2 watts.
I'm going to back-away before I totally confuse you and you break something.
Wait awhile and I'm sure the well-educated radio savvy guys will chime-in to help you.

 

[Mustang950]

Is the meter installed between the amp and the antenna?

Yes

 

[Mustang950]

It is time for the "pros" to chime-in to help.
The amp is a variable amp? Correct?
It was suggested to me to set and leave a variable amp at the maximum and set the RF on the radio at (example) 3/4 watt and don't touch the variable knob on the amp. Use the radio's RF power to set the dead-key to the recommended wattage.
I may be wrong, but from what I have read, the primary purpose of the variable amp is to reduce the input from the radio if the radio's RF cannot be low enough.
Maybe you need to reduce the dead-key on the radio lower than 2 watts.
I'm going to back-away before I totally confuse you and you break something.
Wait awhile and I'm sure the well-educated radio savvy guys will chime-in to help you.

OK,
I appreciate the help.
I have stayed away from max setting on the AMP because the output was really low compared to the 160-170 I was getting on the other settings. I don't remember the AMPs output on high but based on what you said it could possibly be functioning as I would have expected. But I don't think I checked it for swing, AVE or PEP while on high because it was acting so different from the other settings.
I'll wait a while for possibly others to chime in but I think testing it on high will be my next step.
Thanks,

 

[Mustang950]

Well, it works with the amp on the highest setting.
Using the K-PO DX5000 plus I can adjust the dead key out of the amp as needed and currently set at 35w which results in a PEP of 250w. I got good audio reports and the amp stayed around 85 degrees with one small fan sitting on top. I do have a cheap amp meter that I am going to install to see what the amp draw is.

I still would like to know why the other settings don't work correctly. I'll contact Copper next week and see if they can shed any light on the problem.

Thanks RECON for walking me through the test process.

 

[Recon]

Well, it works with the amp on the highest setting.
Using the K-PO DX5000 plus I can adjust the dead key out of the amp as needed and currently set at 35w which results in a PEP of 250w. I got good audio reports and the amp stayed around 85 degrees with one small fan sitting on top. I do have a cheap amp meter that I am going to install to see what the amp draw is.

I still would like to know why the other settings don't work correctly. I'll contact Copper next week and see if they can shed any light on the problem.

Thanks RECON for walking me through the test process.

It sounds as though the radio's dead-key cannot be adjusted below 1.5 watts. Am I correct?

 

[Recon]

It sounds as though the radio's dead-key cannot be adjusted below 1.5 watts. Am I correct?

It sounds as though the radio's dead-key cannot be adjusted below 1.5 watts. Am I correct?

Well, it works with the amp on the highest setting.
Using the K-PO DX5000 plus I can adjust the dead key out of the amp as needed and currently set at 35w which results in a PEP of 250w. I got good audio reports and the amp stayed around 85 degrees with one small fan sitting on top. I do have a cheap amp meter that I am going to install to see what the amp draw is.

I still would like to know why the other settings don't work correctly. I'll contact Copper next week and see if they can shed any light on the problem.

Thanks RECON for walking me through the test process.

My opinion is you are focusing too much on PEP. You reach the PEP when your voice is the loudest and/or you whistle into the mic, but people don't usually talk at the PEP level. Ask the seller what the recommended dead-key for that amp is. As I stated before, using an amplified mic with a ten-meter radio plus an external amp may not be good for the radio. Maybe the person / shop who converted the radio to eleven-meters can adjust / reduce the dead-key. There should be an instruction sheet with the amp which indicates the maximum input watts.