How long before the men in black come knocking

[hustlerfastrack54]

Hey everyone, late and I can't sleep so figure I would ask a question. I am looking to buy an amp, nothing big to compete with the big boy in " da bowl" but something like a 250 watt. How exactly does the FCC know I have an amp and go about starting an investigation? No freebanding or ham bands just the 40 channels and USB and LSB. And someone told me not to run it on Sundays during church hours (kind of funny story behind that advice). So no crazy power, on frequency, talked to neighbors about bleeding over home electronics and no ham radios as far as I can tell. My radio can go above and below 11m and I have went there but never dared to transmit, just to listen but never hear anyone. So what are the chances of getting caught? I also live in a rural town, if that matters. I've been talking some skip recently but just don't have quite enough ooomph to reach a few stations. Just figured I'd ask this and how many on here run amplifiers on 11m.

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

Only with excessive complaints..
FCC nearest field office may send a truck to track you..
Then with their meters.. in close proximity to you.
can then determine the exact frequency and power you are using..
Depending on their observations and findings..
Would levy possible charges against you..

However..
That is worst case scenario..

They first have to get many repeated complaints to even consider going to check..
If like me.. You went to all your neighbors to say something along the lines of..

Hey ( so and so ) i just set up a cb base station..
Do me a favor..in case you hear any interference let me know so i can take care of it..
Though i doubt it will be an issue ( say nothibng about you getting an amp or what type of cb model radio or antenna etc ).

I found only one complaint.. turned out my cousin next door had been using a cordless phone that was some 20 yrs old..lol

So it was an easy fix.. LOL

 

[roadrage]

Just make sure you are clean. There are many different things you should do before you key up. First, make sure your radio isn't over-modulated. You should set it around 90% but don't exceed 100%. You should install a low-pass filter. Also look into RF grounding. And you can create a chokepoint at the feed of your antenna with a balun or coilling your coax.
If you are friendly with your neighbors, you could arrange a test broadcast while they listen for you coming over their electronic devices. I would be extra careful if you live in the vacinity of a fire station, police, hospital, or some other public safety that uses radio. It is bad enough to come over your neighbors TV, but don't be that guy who interferes with an emergency broadcast from a dispatch to mobile unit. Cleaner is better. It yeilds better performance as well. You can spread 250W over 5 channels, or do it right and have it concentrated all where it is intended. If everything is good, you shouldn't get bothered.

Good luck

 

[Turbo T]

When the men in black will come knocking...

If you buy one of those dirty linears that bleeds over into speakers and phones, etc, your neighbors, if they know it's you, might call the FCC to report a problem....and then will the "men in black" will then set out to investigate.

Also if this is a base station, make sure you use something like LMR-400 coax, that is a low loss coax....as it helps cut down on stray RF.

 

[mr_fx]

according to my sources in the conspiracy/rumor mills, I can tell you with great certainty that 'they' will be planning a covert tactical strike on you station on or around 07/22/2012 at around 19:25 hours. Please be prepared for this as there is a good chance that they will be placing in a large black SUV and taking you to Area 51 for a full cavity search and through interrogation. Also they intend to take your amplifier and connect it to an anal probe, insert the probe in your bumm, then key it up for around 5 minutes and give you an RF burn where the sun don't shine.

 

[Mudfoot]

In lancaster, Ohio the cops will visit you instead of the FCC. They have ordinances that address RFI. The last time I recall it being used was in the late 80's. Guy was running an amp and causing interference. He eventually plead guilty to disorderly conduct.

 

[Oatmeal]

The guys dressed in black, last time I saw them they drove a white van..
That was back in the early 80s...
Wasnt a pretty site when they rolled into town then..

 

[RatsoW8]

Like anything else we try to get away with I always say "you don't get caught until you get caught"

In the 80's I wised up and got my ham ticket...now I don't have to worry about having a big ole amp!

m24duster is right...the local fuzz are able to enforce certain CB violations. Have been for some time now.

 

[Robb]

The MIB are a federal organization. Politics plays into why they react; they must serve the public and cannot be slackers. They get their job done when public reaction through constant complaints and harassing their office reach a critical mass. Two or more people constantly complaining can easily do it. An instant reaction will come about if police/fire/ambulance/public works are interfered with.

Sure the local police can be called in. Keep your neighbors happy and then you won't be concerned about the MIB or the local boys in blue . . .

 

[hustlerfastrack54]

Thanks for all the responses to my question. I was looking at maybe a Palomar HD250FET amplifier. I don't know how well these are filtered nor do I understand the designs of amplifiers concerning "linearity", is that even a word? Is there anything that can be done to an amp to make them cleaner short of a full redesign? For what its worth, we have a baby monitor about 60' from the radio and the radio is peaking at 43 watts, I asked my wife if she ever heard anything coming over the monitor and said she hadn't heard anything. But one time I did have a unmodded cobra 29 with a whip mounted in my truck and when I modulated, the touch lamp in our room would start going crazy, but nothing so far with the new radio. Is this a good sign that my set up is right?

 

[AudioShockwav]

They can, but they have to write a local ordnance first, like Duster said, something to the effect of disorderly conduct while using CB equipment not authorized by the commission .
As long as you are using " Citizens Band radio equipment authorized by the Commission" you are covered under federal law, the FCC will not give up that right.
The local government can enact laws that cover "use of Citizens Band radio equipment not authorized by the Commission"
You Still have the right to appeal to the FCC if You believed the state or local government had overstepped its authority under the new law. Any applicable state or local law would not preclude the FCC from enforcing regulations in a given case at the same time.

This is called Bill HR-2346
:

President Bill Clinton has signed legislation that permits the enforcement of certain FCC Citizens Band regulations by state and local governments. Amateur Radio operators are exempt from the provisions of the law, now PL 106-521.

Congressional lawmakers saw the measure as a way to give a voice to those experiencing radio frequency interference resulting from illegal CB radio operation. The FCC will not yield its authority to regulate Citizens Band or other radio services, however.

In short, the measure authorizes states and localities to enact laws that prohibit the use of unauthorized CB equipment--consistent with FCC regulations. This would include the use of high-power linear amplifiers or equipment that was not FCC-certificated (formerly called "type-accepted").

Specifically, the bill enables state or local regulation over the "use of Citizens Band radio equipment not authorized by the Commission" and "the unauthorized operation of Citizens Band radio equipment" between 24 and 35 MHz. FCC-licensed stations in any radio service--including the Amateur Service--are excluded from such state or local enforcement, and state or local laws enacted under this legislation must identify this exemption.

Anyone affected by the enforcement of such legislation could appeal to the FCC if they believed the state or local government had overstepped its authority under the new law. Any applicable state or local law would not preclude the FCC from enforcing regulations in a given case at the same time.

The new law also says the FCC shall "provide technical guidance to state and local governments regarding the detection and determination of violations" of any regulations localities might enact.

The bill--HR.2346 is the House version; it was S.2767 in the Senate--actually is the old Senate "Feingold bill" from several sessions ago. After introducing his original version a few years back, Wisconsin Sen Russell Feingold requested assistance from the ARRL to rewrite the measure to ensure that licensed hams could not be affected, that the bill featured a wealth of "due process" provisions, and that the concept of federal preemption over telecommunication activities wouldn't be compromised. The bill signed by the President is nearly identical to the Feingold bill.

The bill's sponsor, Rep Vernon Ehlers of Michigan said Amateur Radio operators encouraged him to introduce the measure in the House last year. Ehlers maintained that the local hams asked him to support the bill because of the bad rap they were getting from illegal CBers using high-power linear amplifiers that resulted in TV and telephone interference while the CBers involved hid behind federal preemption.

I can tell you that the bill has had little effect out here in the west, very few local laws have been written and they do not seem to want to get involved in Radio enforcement.
I can tell you a story about a guy that was causing interference to one of the local emergency services ( fire Department ) and it took over a year for them to take action.
In fact the Guy is still on the air to this day , even after Several visits from the Local police, FCC field agents, NOL`s and violations more.
I doubt they are going to go to extremes over a residential phone or something of that nature.

73
Jeff

 

[hustlerfastrack54]

It seems like you need at least 150 watts nowadays to talk even to the locals. It ain't what is was 10 years ago. I think 250 watts would do everything I need to do with my W-58 antenna 40' up. I know the antrons and Imax have a rep of horrible bleed over but haven't really seen to much on the 58's, but then again, this is just what I've read online so take it with a grain. I know I saw in an earlier post the LMR-400 coax is better to reduce RFI, I just bought 75' of RG8-X with the antenna but did make a choke with about 5 7" coils of coax just under the connector. With a Palomar HD250FET amp, will this be okay or should I go with the LMR-400 coax? Or are there cleaner amps than the new palomars?

 

[Robb]

It seems like you need at least 150 watts nowadays to talk even to the locals.

That makes no sense at all. Most of the locals around here in San Jose use stock radios and can talk over 20 miles from their base. Where do you live?

It ain't what is was 10 years ago. I think 250 watts would do everything I need to do with my W-58 antenna 40' up.

Many guys I talk to think that 100 watts can and has talked around the globe with a just fancy antenna. Consider the possibility?

I know the antrons and Imax have a rep of horrible bleed over but haven't really seen to much on the 58's, but then again, this is just what I've read online so take it with a grain. I know I saw in an earlier post the LMR-400 coax is better to reduce RFI, I just bought 75' of RG8-X with the antenna but did make a choke with about 5 7" coils of coax just under the connector.

Just fine.

With a Palomar HD250FET amp, will this be okay or should I go with the LMR-400 coax? Or are there cleaner amps than the new palomars?

Be sure that your radio is setup to support running an amp. Many amps run cleaner and better with the dead key turned down to 1 watt.

No one says that you need an amp. If you everything set up optimally, you should be able to do quite well without that.

 

[hustlerfastrack54]

Hey Robb sorry if I came across the wrong way on my last post. The 150 watt comment was really just sarcasm, you're absolutely right about the fancy antenna, a good antenna can do more with less no doubt. I could probably get away with less than 250 watts, the radio I have dead keys 10 watts and swings to 43 watts, thats the reason I am stuck on a 250, its the smallest hi drive I've seen. I have made a few contacts a good distance away, 1 in Virgina and 1 in Missouri and 1 in Florida. I've tried a few more with the help of a local who tells the other guy to listen for me but usually can't pull me through. He has a M103 with a Texas Star 350, conditions got me 3 contacts and a beam vs omni, beam wins every time. I like talking skip and know that mother nature has the final word on where my signal ends up, I just wish I could make DX'ing a more common thing. But then again, the people I constantly hear talking DX mainly on channel 6 and 11 and a few other channels bleed over 3 channels, something I want to avoid. The remark about not being what it was 10 years ago, there were alot more radios around my area back then but since then alot have gone silent, fewer people being farther away, it's not as easy to find some one locally to talk to, most around 35 to 40 miles away. I didn't mean to offend anyone on this forum that use an Antron99 or Imax 2000, by me saying "I KNOW" antrons and Imaxs have a rep for bleed over, I sounded cocky in a "my antennas better than your antenna kind of way." I should have said I've heard instead of I know. I should apologize to everyone who chimed in on this discussion. Instead of asking how will I get caught running an amplifier, I should have asked will an amplifier help me do what I want to do, can't get caught with an amp if you don't have one because you don't need one. I jumped to conclusions, all of which where proven unnecessary by Robb. No hard feelings Robb, you gotta keep us youngsters inline from time to time. So with all this said, would there be any real benefit of running an amplifier for DX or is it strictly an atmosphere condition kinda thing?

-Hustler

P.S. I know there is an amp section in the amateur radio section but don't know how asking questions about illegal amps would go over on that board.

 

[psycho]

The government is 1 million times more concerned with illegal immigration than running illegally on 11 meters......and we all know how concerned with illegal immigration they are. :laugh: