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input/output transformer?

bob85

Supporting Member
Mar 30, 2005
3,480
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england
can anybody here explain the science behind transformer wraps?
what is the reason some 2879 amps using the same length transformer cores have different turns on the secondary of the output transformers, me and a friend are experimenting with these things measuring the different reactance with different wire diameter on the same core/turns and different turns but need some info, we have seen 2879 amps with 2 turns and 3 turns on the westgate large cores, and 4 turns on the 1/2" cores as in maine680's project build, now from what we have read the impedance stepup is the square of the turns so 2 turns is 4x impedance stepup 3 turns is 9x and 4 turns is 16x, what we want to know is what effect going from 2 turns to 4 turns has on the overall performance and how do you calculate the correct turns for a given core size/length,
we look at the data sheet for 2879's and see the series equivalent input/output impedance, is this the impedance we want to transform to 50ohms and if it is then how come theres big differences in the turns on different amps, does the optimal load impedance go up with supply voltage demanding less turns for an amp thats going to be used at 20v in a keydown or is there some other reason for the different turns ratio on different amps with the same cores and same number of transistors, finding info on this is proving difficult so any help would be appreciated or could anybody point us towards a source of info so we can make a calculated decision
 

Bob pm me with your email.... I would like to discuss this with you.. and seeing that the conversation might get long email would probably be better not to tie up this section... Or we could just threw PM's... your call.
 
lol jeff, shhhhh its top secret guarded by the men with smoke and mirrors, i too want the real facts and cant see how posting it here will harm anything because the guys that do it a certain way without knowing why other than it looks good on a
( bird 43 which is no good for measuring am signals according bird and all the real techs in the world unless you fit the active peak board ) are not gonna change their ways so no secrets to be lost to the competition in this thread lol, the truth is out there you just have to know where to look.
 
I dont have a problem posting anything here... you want smoke and mirrors your barking up the wrong tree.. But you can debate technical mumbo jumbo all day long.. Im talking about the stuff that has most here scratching there heads... And outta 700 members 30 only understand whats going on.. So i prefer to keep it simple... Not only that the minute you try to act like you might no more than someone else it turns into a PISSING contest FAST...

Like i told you in the pm... My knowlege comes from EXSPERIENCE... I have several 2 pill designs... and have tinkerd with just about every RF transformer on the market... Inculding some that i built not knowing what the heck type ferrite i was using.... Bottom LINE there is not just one way to get to 50 ohms when using a specific transformer... You will see amps with a 1.25 rfparts transformer with 4 turns.. I have done them with 5 turns... For grins once I built them with 4 and a half turns... wich is actually still 4 turns..in the end when they are properly lined out low input swr and proper output matching they all do about the same on a watt meter...

Kinda like the other question you had bob about C/E caps... I have used 120 to 240 pf in differnt designs they all are diff...

If your looking for a standard on this subject I dont think your going to find one... Bottom line all amp designers do things differently... u take a joe blow to a john doe and they will dissagree on wether or not the other did things correctly.. but intill your are actually in the mind of the designer it will remain a huge question mark.... I toar open a Joker one time and was like wtf is BOO doing... then after i played with it I was like AHHHH ok damn dude is a mad scientist... lol same with him he told me once he toar open one of mine... after a while he was like damn Smokin Joe has something here.... lol its the truth you dont believe me ask HIM.... The amps in question both used the same TRANSFORMERS...
 
lol your all mad scientists :shock: , so theres no reason i cant get my palomar 900v tuned correctly?, as they come from the builder the tuning is none existant, i dont even see any output tuning cap to ground from the combiner but there are two places on the board with caps missing which if you put some in there would give 2 caps in parallel to ground from the combiner output, maybe they just forgot or decided it dont need any but its not right it needs some sort of tuning because the input vswr is way too high and the vswr measured in the feedline to my dummy load is good untill i turn the amp on and it jumps to way over 3:1 none of my other amps act this way, it uses 4 turns on 1.5" x 1/2" cores with 1500pf across the primaries and no o/p tuning cap on combiner
 
lol those palomars always were jokes... except for the REAL OLD ONES.... but as far as the elite series and the BOOMERS.. they all need serious overhauling to make them work correctly... I use to cringe when i seen one come into my shop.... I knew that i was gonna be in for a long day... Seeing with those things you never knew what you was gonna get ..... The stand up transformers make it almost impossible to work on unless you raise the board... they always seemed to have 1 trimmer pot on the imput of the driver section but nothing between drive section and the final stage.... And your right hardly ever anything for output matching.... Then when you finally start getting it close to where it should be they seem to always want to occilate and stick keyed... I have contributed this to poor emitter grounding...... And a piss poor board design..Although they can be overhauled I really wouldnt waist my time BOB... THis is my opinion and others may differ but best bet gut the damn thing save the pills order you some parts and a board and build you a amp.... Those palomar elite cases work great for amp project...

If you did want to mees with it some before you gutted it out try lowering the 1500 pf cap on the primary to around 900 pf... put a 100 pf to ground after the output combinder... Put trimmer pot on the imput of the final stage that will adjust between 80-240 pf... ground strap the emitters..... going back and forth between the pot you added and the pot thats usually located at the input of the drive section tune the amp for the lowest imput swr and max pep wattage out... This might get you in the ball park... But its hard to say... seems like those things always acted different than the next...
 
damit, i have an old 400 elite high drive too, it looks like a boomer 400 with a resistive divider on the input that acts exactly as you describe, play with the input cap and as you think your getting close it goes off on one locking in tx, it uses 4 srf7000-90's instead of 455's or 1446's i am not sure if they are the original transitors or has somebody put them in, shame about the 900v it was only 2 months old and like brand new when i got it but i put it on the back burner when 4040 sent me the m4v which whoops the palomars, one day i will add some negative feedback strap the emitters as i usually do to the heatsink and ground the negative lead to heatsink too ( doing this has cured oscillations for me before ) then see if i can tune them so they work ok, if not oh well they did not cost me a lot so nothings spoiling they can sit on the shelf looking pretty untill i get the urge to tear em up and have a go at a straight 4 pill :cry:
 
i edited the post with some modifications you might try on your 900... There is a good chance it will work if you try them...although seeing that we are talking about a palamar I canot promise you anything lol
 
Man if they take away this edit feature ... I will be one screeewwwed up mofo lmfao :shock: lol iwas looking at the edit times...lol further proof... great minds think alike :D take care man im going to bed!!!
 
RUCKUS said:
Man if they take away this edit feature ... I will be one screeewwwed up mofo lmfao :shock: lol iwas looking at the edit times...lol further proof... great minds think alike :D take care man im going to bed!!!

LOL your already one screwed up mofo!!!!! :LOL: Goto bed!! CAUSE BIG BROTHER SAYS ITS PAST YOUR BED TIME!
 

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