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LEGAL LIMIT SOLIDSTATE AMPLIFIER

I have pictures of this amp from Dayton this year. The guy ran it all weekend at near legal limit the entire time to demonstrate it's reliability.

That is one amp I would love to have....totally built right. Lots of money though....

I was listening to the guy who designed it on the air one day and basically that thing is built for 100% duty cycle period.

The PW-1 and Quadra are close in spec as far as duty cycle goes, but not in output at that rating. The Tokyo models if you read their specs are not rated for high duty cycle at their full outputs.
 
I'm not getting into a "which is better" type thingy with amplifiers. But there are a few things that do make one particular type 'better' than another type in particular situation. For me, the first consideration is cost. Not just initial cost, but up-keep too. Another consideration is which will be easiest for me to use. Not related to convenience so much, but what's it gonna cost me to make it usable where I want to use it.
There's no huge, overwhelming reason to use solid state devices. Them old 'hollow state' (tubes) things work just fine too. They typically are not 'plug-n-play', but they really are not that difficult to use.
I think the biggest difference between the too, practically speaking, is that tube amplifiers/devices are much easier to use where you have AC power available. Sure, a solid state amplifier will work the same way, but in most cases, the device for converting that AC to DC will certainly make a hole in your wallet. Those tube amplifiers usually have that power supply built into them. (High voltage and a little bit of current, or low voltage a huge amount of current. Tell me which is cheaper to do.)
If all that you have available is DC, then that tube amplifier will be a real 'birch' to get running.
So which 'fits' your situation the best? That's what I would look for.
- 'Doc


As for that 8877/3CX1500, that has got to be one of the most 'touchy' tubes ever made! You really do have to be careful with them. I don't care what you pay for one, it can be turned in to trash in the blink of an eye. No, I never owned one, and don't plan to. There are other tubes that are much more 'forgiving', and I can certainly use that!
 
As for that 8877/3CX1500, that has got to be one of the most 'touchy' tubes ever made! You really do have to be careful with them. I don't care what you pay for one, it can be turned in to trash in the blink of an eye. No, I never owned one, and don't plan to. There are other tubes that are much more 'forgiving', and I can certainly use that!

I must be lucky, I've hit a Chinese made 8877 multiple times by accident with 200 watts of drive and it is still doing what it supposed to do. However, my amplifier does have a lot of protection which forces the the amp off line. Nevertheless, there are thousands of amateurs using the 8877 everyday with no issues. I just don't know of many who have blown the 8877 once they have been in service for a while, and still question all the doom and gloom associated with this particular tube.

From all the reading I have done about the tube/issues, from a few conversation with amplifer manufactures, and an engineer that works for Eimac. IMO a lot of the negative hype seems to stem from the defective runs of 8877s Eimac seems to produce ever so often (8877 3cx1500A7 arcing short failure).

I spoke to Molly of Alpha Power last year (Fall 2008) about the Chinese tubes they started using instead of the Eimacs, she indicated that they had switched to the Chinese made 8877 because they were experiencing about a 25% to 35% failure rate with the Eimac manufactured 8877, and many were failing during quality testing of the amplifier before delivery. With the Chinese tubes (Penta) she said the failure rate was almost non-existent, as she could not actually recall when one had failed.

I contacted Eimac and spoke to one of their Engineers (Fall 2008) and he confirmed that in fact the run of Eimac 8877s that had been sold to Alpha in the past year had experienced a high rate of failure, but he indicated that an inspection of the tubes suggested that some, not all, had been run outside of their allowable limits. However, Eimac did replace most of those tubes out of courtesy to Alpha.

As noted in the link I posted above, W8JI gave examples of Eimac 8877 failures (I believe that W8JI designed most of the amps made by Ameritron back before they were bought by MFJ). If you look on the Ameritron site they also are now advertising their amps as being available with Chinese made tubes, I suspect that in part, it may be due to the amount of failures that they have been having with the Eimacs.

Perhaps the 8877 as it turns out is not such a picky awful tube that can be evaporated in a blink of an eye? But perhaps it is just the bad/weak 8877s made by Eimac during the occassional bad production runs that has given this tube a poor reputation. For years all you could get was an Eimac 8877 because no one else made them, so basically every 8877 that failed was made by Eimac. It begs to question, is it the actual design/limits of the tube or is it the particular manufacturer that is at fault? Who knows? But what I do know is I've done to my Penta 8877 tube multiple times what others say a 8877 will not sustain, yet it shows no ill effects, and still easily makes well over 2.2 KW.

Just my 2 cents.

73
 
295 hit it pretty well.

The 8877 has low grid dissipation due to the ability of the grid to precisely control plate current. More beef in the grid generally = less linearity in cathode driven service.

Yup, there were bad production runs. Yup, you can kill one of these dead with too much drive.

The 3CX1200 is simply an external anode 3-1000Z. It IS a time tested design which can take a spanking. Still, too much money for what you get IMHO.
 
What's the grid dissipation on an 8877/3CX1500? Now, how about on a 3CX1200?
- 'Doc

I am aware that the 3CX1200 has twice the grid capacity of the 3CX1500, 50 watts vs. 25 watts. I also know that the 3cx1200 requires a significant higher level of drive to obtain the same amout of output power due to it being a less efficient tube.

I typically pull about 7 mils of grid current @1500 watts on the 8877 amp, using 40 watts of drive.

A friend of mine who used to run a 3CX1200 typically pulled 30-40 mils of grid current just to make the same power using 75 watts of drive.

I understand that the 3CX1200 can dissipate more grid current, but it requires the extra capacity because in a typical grounded grid amplifer, the 3CX1200 has to work harder to make the same watts as the 1500.
 
I realize that the 3cx1200 has 300 watts less plate dissipation than the 3cx1500, which, really isn't that much of a 'loss', all things considered. That doubling of the grid dissipation rating really does make a difference though. As in the typical "Oops!" when forgetting to reduce drive power. I guess the amount of power needed to drive the '1500 just depends on how you do that measuring. I've listened to several 3cx1500's quit working because they were over driven, as in much less than 100 watts of drive. If I remember correctly, your 40-45 watts of drive is really the practical limit.
For SSB, both of those tubes can be 'pushed' to more than rated output, which is entirely normal/typical. But, because of the lower grid dissipation of that '1500, you'd better really watch what's happening unless you have a spare or two. That 300 watt difference does make a difference on what you see on a watt meter, but very seldom -ever- makes much of a practical difference in what people hear on the air.
I tend to do those 'Oops!' more often than not. So, from my point of view, that '1200 makes a lot more sense than the '1500 does. See where I'm coming from with that?
- 'Doc


wouldn't want a string of Christmas tree lights made from dead 3-500's would you? It takes some good sized nails to hang the @#$ thing. Unfortunately, that's not as big a joke as it sounds like. :)
 
the typical "Oops!" when forgetting to reduce drive power. I guess the amount of power needed to drive the '1500 just depends on how you do that measuring. I've listened to several 3cx1500's quit working because they were over driven, as in much less than 100 watts of drive. If I remember correctly, your 40-45 watts of drive is really the practical limit.

I thought from what Ive read on the hamster forums all these problems only occur when the devices are run on very very low fequencies. not up in 27mhz
 
Yep, and an 8877 does not cost $1250. You can purchase a Chinese made 8877 for around $600.00 and it works just as good as the higher priced Eimac. I have a Penta branded 8877 that came factory in my Alpha, 35-40 watts in = 1500 watts out.

73

sure, the only problem that folks forget to mention is the chinese tubes are NON rebuildable. I spend my money at Eimac/econco when possible,

I know the response will be "well i run my tubes light and they never will need rebuilding"
 
"I thought from what Ive read on the hamster forums all these problems only occur when the devices are run on very very low fequencies. not up in 27mhz"

I think I'd take that with a -very- large dose of salt. :)
- 'Doc
 
I tend to do those 'Oops!' more often than not. So, from my point of view, that '1200 makes a lot more sense than the '1500 does. See where I'm coming from with that?
- 'Doc

I certainly understand where you are at. I agree that the 1200 is a more durable tube over the 1500 when it comes to its ability to sustain abuse of the grid. However, the point I was making is I believe that a lot of the bad publicity the 8877 gets is not so much the design or the tube itself, but it may have more to do with Eimac's poor quality control of this particular tube, because that was the only brand that everyone ran for so many years, being Eimac was the only one who was making the tube.

Everyone has their favorite tube. I like the 3CX1500, for the low IMD and the gain. Some like other tubes for various reasons. Some guys like Chicken some like Steak.

I enjoyed the discussion...73
 
sure, the only problem that folks forget to mention is the chinese tubes are NON rebuildable. I spend my money at Eimac/econco when possible,

I know the response will be "well i run my tubes light and they never will need rebuilding"

Last I heard was Econco was not rebuilding the 8877 becuase it "was not cost effective" I've never heard of a rebuilt 8877 or see one for sale.:confused:
 

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