Looking at picking up a Yaesu VX-8GR

[JohnnyScience]

Hello all, a NOOB to HAMs, but hoping to jump in & learn very quickly.

Just an FYI, I am aware of getting your HAM license, but that is for another thread.

I want to get an HT for emergencies/SHTF scenarios where I can be mobile on foot, yet still have a very effective, lightweight communications device.

I also really like the fact that this model has a built in GPS. (even though "they" can find you when you may not want them to lol)

Does anyone know who is having a sale or a good coupon any time soon that I could use on the Yaesu VX-8GR?

It was hard for me to decide between the DR & GR version of the VX-8, but after someone on ar15.com mentioned "honestly you'll likely never use either 6m or 222 in a handheld. 6m can be interesting in some situations but is of very limited usefulness in a handheld due to antenna size issues, 222 is very low activity in most places and it's only 1.5 watts in any event. If you know you have a use for either of those bands that's great, otherwise I probably wouldn't get worked up about them. "

And on top of the DR GPS unit not being installed inside, but a bulky add on that would require the addition of an external mic for it to be more seamless, but this just adds to more of the bulk of being mobile on foot.

Unless you guys happen to really think the addition of the external mic is really needed. But the GR is so small, it's almost an external mic itself!

 

[JohnnyScience]

Here's my recent questions from ar15.com talk, anyone have answers to my bottom set of questions?

Thanks.

Originally Posted By tesla120
yes, but not submersible, and GPS is not good for battery life. with 6 meters opening up more often it would be nice to have on hand. (no pun intended) if you really want to spend this much money on a HT then I would go with the DR.

the only thing the GR has over many other much more inexpensive radios is that it has the built in GPS, otherwise its really not cheaper.

do you find yourself in unknown locations remote from human contact? or do you just hang out in a suburban area where you could just say "the corner of 9th and Washington ave"?

that is what I would really base my decision on. if I was out in the wilderness a lot where the gps might be handy I can see getting the GR, but if I stayed pretty close to civilization I would spring for the DR just because I would be more likely to use the extra features it has. at the same token though if you are in the wilderness the DR is submersible and the GR is only resistant.

you might want to ask around if a local ham has one you can play with, you may end up hating the menus and how the radio works. I have a friend who absolutely hates Yaesu's HTs just because of their operation, he just picked up an IC-92AD

since you asked im assuming that this much money isn't something you have to just throw around and not care if it doesn't work out, I would research and play with as much as possible to make sure its really what you want to spend your money on. prices will only go down, and used radios will keep showing up online.

It says on the Yaesu website that the GR is "Water spray resistant - meets IPX5 - 3 feet for minimum of 30 minutes."

So it seems it is just as submersible as the DR?

Also, another thing I just noticed is the DR has AM & FM broadcast receiver - that could be useful during emergencies/SHTF couldnt it?

How is 6m becoming more open & useful now? How would it be used in a emergency/SHTF scenario?

I would be using this in more remote locations from time to time, so yes, GPS is something I really want.

Anyone know if you can un-soder the transistor inside to Tx both the GR & DR models? (I'm pretty sure you can on the DR from what I read, but havent seen it mentioned about the GR)

 

[JohnnyScience]

Now others are suggesting that I get a free standing GPS if I want one as it will be much more beneficial & I should get a 3R, 6R or 7R radio instead of the 8r.

Does anyone know the real differences between the 3,6 & 7R models?

Thanks.

 

[KE5MC]

My perspective

J_S_

3 - 2 watts out
6 - 5 watts out, dual band, single receive
7 - 5 watts out, dual band, dual receive

GPS in the radio supports APRS operations on 2 meters. The external GPS is significantly more useful in the field. One caveat - never leave home to go hiking without a map and compass only relying on the GPS.

I have the DR with speaker-mic and the GPS module. For APRS operation I install the module on the speaker-mic which is easier than on top of the radio. On top of the radio is not really an issue in terms of size. The GPS will eat into your battery life and you can not turn it off if installed. For me the problem is I use antennas with BNC connectors so I have a SMA to BNC adaptor on the top of the radio. I would have to remove that adaptor, go to an SMA antenna and then install the GPS bracket. I use BNC antennas for the easy on and off the radio. When I pack the radio for travel the separation saves ware and tear and makes for a smaller package.

I think the speaker-mic is important. You want to get the radio and attached antenna away from your body to make the most of your 5 watts. With the radio attached to your shoulder strap or on top of your backpack you have the antenna away from your body. Then the speaker-mic is clipped on your other shoulder or maybe somewhere on you chest in a position easy to hear and talk into the mic. This leave your hands free to manage other items until you need the radio.

More than likely I answered a few questions, but might have brought up points that raise more questions. I hope I have helped in some small way.

KE5MC, Mike

 

[JohnnyScience]

J_S_

3 - 2 watts out
6 - 5 watts out, dual band, single receive
7 - 5 watts out, dual band, dual receive

Ok, so what is the 8DR then, 5W, quad band & what is the receive?

GPS in the radio supports APRS operations on 2 meters. The external GPS is significantly more useful in the field. One caveat - never leave home to go hiking without a map and compass only relying on the GPS.

I have the DR with speaker-mic and the GPS module. For APRS operation I install the module on the speaker-mic which is easier than on top of the radio. On top of the radio is not really an issue in terms of size. The GPS will eat into your battery life and you can not turn it off if installed. For me the problem is I use antennas with BNC connectors so I have a SMA to BNC adaptor on the top of the radio. I would have to remove that adaptor, go to an SMA antenna and then install the GPS bracket. I use BNC antennas for the easy on and off the radio. When I pack the radio for travel the separation saves ware and tear and makes for a smaller package.

I think the speaker-mic is important. You want to get the radio and attached antenna away from your body to make the most of your 5 watts. With the radio attached to your shoulder strap or on top of your backpack you have the antenna away from your body. Then the speaker-mic is clipped on your other shoulder or maybe somewhere on you chest in a position easy to hear and talk into the mic. This leave your hands free to manage other items until you need the radio.

More than likely I answered a few questions, but might have brought up points that raise more questions. I hope I have helped in some small way.

KE5MC, Mike

I think you make a lot of sense with your points, I am probably going to go with the 8DR.

I am planning on getting the extended battery regardless, so this will help with the GPS situation. Plus I like the fact I can remove & disable the GPS if I want to help either hide my location or save battery life.

What does freebanded mean & what does it allow you to do?

So I understand that 6m & 222 are great if you have a group of people that want to be on a secure line that will pretty much be only them talking amongst themselves without the worry of someone picking you up on their scanner, but what kind of range can you expect with a dedicated group of people to be able to communicate with each other on a specific frequency you setup ahead of time for emergencies on the 6m or 222?

Do these two bands also use the repeater stations to travel farther distances?

It would be nice to have a dedicated frequency that I & only a handful of friends & family would know to turn on during an emergency/SHTF for complete privacy without the worry of others running their scanners to pick up our conversations.

 

[KE5MC]

It is dual band at least. I have to look into the details, but as I recall you can listen in on commercial am/fm, if squelch breaks on either of the 'A' side or 'B' side it will mute the commercial stuff and you will hear the caller. I think you can set a priority channel too so the radio will listen to that channel for activity every few seconds or less.

I think the stock battery is one of the short coming of the supplied items. It does make for a thinner radio at the expense of operating times. Getting the extended battery is a good choice. The charging stand is nice too.

Freebanding is opening the radio to transmit on frequencies it is not intended for in the US market as it was delivered. It opens Pandora's box of should/shouldn't, legal/who's going to catch me. I know about the term and just stay away for the topic in general.

Range on simplex with 5 watts regardless of band is conservatively I would say is under 3 miles at best. All of my experience with simplex is on 2m and 70cm. I would expect 222 to be similar and don't have any real idea about 6m. There are repeaters for both bands and it depends on your location if any are active.

Nothing secure on ham radio. Always consider that someone is listening. Never say anything you don't want the whole world to know about. You are trying to talk to others in your group using the same setup. Ground based HT with stock or after market antenna. Outside your group could be a person with an antenna at 100 foot above ground with 3-4 db of gain. He/she will hear you for surprising distances depending on conditions.

Mike

PS. The manuals are online at any of the major manufactures in PDF format.

Ok, so what is the 8DR then, 5W, quad band & what is the receive?
<snip>
I am planning on getting the extended battery regardless, so this will help with the GPS situation.
<snip>
What does freebanded mean & what does it allow you to do?

So I understand that 6m & 222 are great if you have a group of people that want to be on a secure line that will pretty much be only them talking amongst themselves without the worry of someone picking you up on their scanner, but what kind of range can you expect with a dedicated group of people to be able to communicate with each other on a specific frequency you setup ahead of time for emergencies on the 6m or 222?

Do these two bands also use the repeater stations to travel farther distances?

It would be nice to have a dedicated frequency that I & only a handful of friends & family would know to turn on during an emergency/SHTF for complete privacy without the worry of others running their scanners to pick up our conversations.

 

[JohnnyScience]

Hmm interesting. I need to do a bit more research.

So you're saying the 6m & 222 are good for about 3 miles unless we have repeater stations in the area that will bounce those particular frequency signals?

Also I see the VX-8DR with pictures of green screens & orange/red screens.

Are you able to change screen color? Are there other screen color options available? Perhaps blue?

Thanks.

 

[KE5MC]

No... My experience has been with 2m and 70cm. 222 is bracketed by the other two bands, but the output is not 5 watts. 6m is not 5 watts either and the antenna will not be as efficient at that lower frequency even with the stinger attached for that band.

The radio has the added bands of 6m and 222, but the primary usage will be on 2m and 70cm. The ads don't give a complete picture. It is a feature rich radio, but some features have limits that you have to drill down in the manual to find the facts.

Communications at ground level with HTs is very dependent on geography. It is considered line of sight plus a small percentage added on communications. I was saying 3 miles at best. Possibly more across water or hilltop to hilltop, because of lack of obstructions. At times a great deal less than 3. In a canyon or gully would be an example.

Repeaters make such a difference in range because the receive and transmit antennas placement on high locations above ground. That gets back to the line of sight communications.

When the radio was first released there was a lot of discussion about screen color because of what you have seen. Let me put that quickly to 'bed'. Like Henry Ford said, "You can have any color you want as long as it is 'orange'." Well... almost like he said anyway. There was a lot of speculation about the different colors seen. I don't recall that it was ever explained away, because all you get is orange.

Mike

<snip>
So you're saying the 6m & 222 are good for about 3 miles unless we have repeater stations in the area that will bounce those particular frequency signals?

Also I see the VX-8DR with pictures of green screens & orange/red screens.
<snip>
Thanks.

 

[K0epp]

I also agree that most of your use will be on the 2m and 440 bands. I've had my VX7R for 5 years now and not once have I used the 6m feature on it. If it did SSB that would be a different story, but these HTs are FM only.

Also keep in mind that the GPS on both the DR and GR only works for APRS usage. If your looking to use the GPS for navigation or for hiking trails you will want something like a Garmin 60CSx. If you want APRS functions, I've heard these are great radios to get. If you don't care about APRS, a VX7R will have just about all the functions of the DR with a little less cost.

 

[KE5MC]

The 8DR does have AM modulation on 6m. Agreed SSB would be nice.

<snip>
...story, but these HTs are FM only.
<snip>

 

[kd7jym]

vx8dr vs vx8gr

I have both of these radios, and there are good and bad points for each of them.

They use the same batteries and the same drop-in charger. This is cool because even though the GR is relatively new, the accessories are already out there, and in my case I already had the bigger battery and dropin charger.

They are also almost exactly the same size if you don't have a GPS attached to the DR. I'm sure they also have different weights, but I can't really tell from holding them in my hand.

The menu system and buttons on both radios are almost identical. Don't worry that one is easier to use than the other. Likewise, the displays are the same too. You get the same information from both of them.

You could use the GPS for navigation, but its probably not what you want. All it is going to tell you is where you are, as in what are your coordinates. It doesn't have a map, so you will need to take your coordinates and find them on a paper map. Honestly, if you're going out in the wilderness, you better know how to do this with landmarks and a compass.

It is really meant for the builtin APRS functionality, which can report your position and allow you to see other position reports or send and receive messages. You can also get reports from weather stations, which is pretty nice when out in the woods.

Despite probably not being what most people would want for navigation, the GPS could prove to be a lifesaver. Imagine you come along someone in the woods who is injured and need to call for help. Being able to relay the exact coordinates of the location to rescue personnel is going to speed up the rescue immensely compared to having to describe the location to them. My dad took advantage of this once to help guide a medical helicopter to the scene of a car crash out in the middle of nowhere at night. Of course if you are packing a handheld GPS or even a phone with GPS in it you could do the same thing, but I personally don't take those things out in the woods, just the radio.

So what is the difference between the two?

The most obvious differences are that the GR has a GPS builtin to it and only covers 2m and 70cm, whereas the GPS is an addon for the DR and it covers 6m and 222 also, as well as sporting wide band receive.

DR cons:
The DR doesn't have the GPS builtin, it has to be added, and then it is mounted externally either on top of the radio or in the hand mic.

The GPS can't be powered off, you have to disconnect it to stop it from sucking the battery. Since you can turn it off on the GR, I am wondering if Yaesu could enable this in the DR with a firmware update.

The DR costs a lot more than the GR, and that is just comparing the cost of the radios. Add the GPS to the DR and the cost differential gets even bigger.

GR cons:
uses a minijack mic. don't know if everyone would consider this a con, but if I am comparing the GR and DR, this is a con for the GR to me because the DR has a nice top mounted screw-on mic connector much like a commercial radio might have.

This may be just my unit, but the GPS on my GR is really slow to acquire. My DR will have a 6-7 satellite fix, inside my garage, within a minute of being turned on. the GR takes several minutes outside. Complete speculation, but I suspect they used a better, more expensive, GPS module for the DR.

Doesn't cover all the bands the DR does, and doesn't do wideband receive like the DR.

DR pros:
submersible. you can get it wet for real. the GR is just spray resistant.

Nice hand mic available. You can mount the GPS in the mic, which means you can easily put the GPS out in the open, like on your shoulder strap of your backpack.

The DR's VFO and power buttons are raised and easy to feel in the dark. On the GR these are more flat and sorta flush making it just a little harder to use by feel. Also, the up/down buttons on the DR are bigger.

At least with my two radios, the GPS on my DR is much quicker to acquire a fix. If you use the radio the way i do in the woods (keep it turned off and only turn it on at appointed intervals) this is nice.

GR pros:
GPS can be turned off, saving battery when you don't need GPS. You just go into the menu and set it to off, done. Note you can still receive APRS messages, so you only need the GPS on when you want to report your position.

GPS doesn't protrude from the unit. Nothing to get lost or broken. I've never had a problem with my DR's GPS, but I am always worried I'm going to lose it or a part of it.

Less expensive. I paid $350+tax for my GR. Currently at Universal Radio the DR is $420 and you would need to add the GPS for another $78 and the mounting bracket for the GPS for another $25, coming to a total of $523+shipping/tax.

So, all that said, based on your questions above I think a GR would probably work well for you IF you want the APRS functionality. If you want GPS more for nav capabilities and you don't really care about APRS, you would probably want a mapping GPS. You could skip the GR and go with another model that is a lot cheaper and smaller, with better battery life to boot.