Ok here is my dilemma. I currently have an ft2900 in my jeep, and an icom 2100 at home. I'd like to upgrade the mobile rig in the jeep to a dual band/dual receive radio, migrate my 2900 to the house and sell the icom 2100. Currently, I'm looking at the V71A, and the 8800R. I like the option of remote control and ID for xband on the kenwood, and the head mounted microphone jack of the yaesu. So I'm kind of torn, as to what I want. Anyone care to give their input on both models, or other models? What do you like, and what do you hate about them.
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Mobile radio decisions
- Thread starter Streetglideok
- Start date
I had the same debate with myself. I need a new dual band mobile and cross band repeat operation is high on the priority list.
Here's where I'm at. The Yaesu is a great radio but doesn't have lighted buttons. For operating mobile in the dark this would be a huge problem. The Kenwood also seems to be an excellent radio for exactly the reasons you give. I'd buy one except it has a 3 minute time-out-timer when in cross band repeat mode. I checked directly with Kenwood and it can't be defeated. I know from experience that often if a net is on a repeater and there is lots of traffic the squelch tail may not drop for longer than 3 minutes. This causes the Kenwood to stop transmitting to your handheld until someone finally lets the repeater drop. I've used a Kenwood in cross-band repeat with this 3 minute timer and it shut down several times during a 20 minute ARES net. Some guys act like their life depends on never letting the squelch tail drop for a second.
Because of this timer I won't buy the Kenwood.
Have you looked at the Alinco DR-635T? I've never owned an Alinco but I think I'm going to give one a try. It has lighted buttons, remote control, cross band repeat, and no timer. And, best of all, you can buy one new for $305 if you look hard.
Here's where I'm at. The Yaesu is a great radio but doesn't have lighted buttons. For operating mobile in the dark this would be a huge problem. The Kenwood also seems to be an excellent radio for exactly the reasons you give. I'd buy one except it has a 3 minute time-out-timer when in cross band repeat mode. I checked directly with Kenwood and it can't be defeated. I know from experience that often if a net is on a repeater and there is lots of traffic the squelch tail may not drop for longer than 3 minutes. This causes the Kenwood to stop transmitting to your handheld until someone finally lets the repeater drop. I've used a Kenwood in cross-band repeat with this 3 minute timer and it shut down several times during a 20 minute ARES net. Some guys act like their life depends on never letting the squelch tail drop for a second.
Because of this timer I won't buy the Kenwood.
Have you looked at the Alinco DR-635T? I've never owned an Alinco but I think I'm going to give one a try. It has lighted buttons, remote control, cross band repeat, and no timer. And, best of all, you can buy one new for $305 if you look hard.
I've got both.
Votes for ease of use and better audio go to the V71. V71's are MUCH louder than 8800's. They sound much stronger. It also has an almost unnoticeable squelch tail when used as a remote or cross banding. Never had an issue with the timer because if I'm on a machine that's so busy it doesn't drop in less than three minutes, I'm running in duplex/remote mode so the radio isn't "repeating" everything to the HT. I'm listening to the repeater on the HT, but talking from the HT through the V71 and in to the repeater.
The kenwood has a simple and quick access menu. This is the first of five dual banders that I didn't bother buying software for. The V71 so quick to program that the software & cable seem like a waste of money to me. Even odd splits are simple. I successfully fought through the initial programming of my 8800 through it's face, but it's SO menu driven that the software was a relief. I can't remember the exact function(s), but I did find a thing or two that I could ONLY change through the software and not through it's face. By comparison, the 8800 is still much easier to program than my 2820 Icom, which is a nightmare w/o software.
While the 8800 is easier to remote mount because of the mic jack in the control head, the jack is in ROTTEN position if you mount the radio to your right side (which most probably do). The jack is right next to the right side VFO control knob and about 1/2 the time I pull the mic up to my mug (which is left of the radio) the mic cord will change the volume or squelch setting on the right side. Very annoying... I find myself stringing the mic cord around things to keep it away from the knobs.
Running full duplex on the 8800 is all but impossible with the mic gain up and even with the gain set to "low" I've had to add a capacitor across the mic element because of the feedback. At highway speeds when you've got the volume turned up so that you can hear okay, you key up and it'll scream so bad that everyone on the repeater will hate you. The capacitor kills the feedback but you have to eat the mic to be heard.
Don't have that problem with the V71.
Squelch tail on the 8800 is noticeable but not obnoxious. Again the 8800 is in the middle on this issue with the V71 being "best" and my IC-2820H being really bad.
I can't think of anything the 8800 with do better than the V71 aside from not having to run a remote mic cord IF you plan to remote mount it. I like my 8800 and use it all the time, but if someone offered to trade a V71 in the same condition I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Votes for ease of use and better audio go to the V71. V71's are MUCH louder than 8800's. They sound much stronger. It also has an almost unnoticeable squelch tail when used as a remote or cross banding. Never had an issue with the timer because if I'm on a machine that's so busy it doesn't drop in less than three minutes, I'm running in duplex/remote mode so the radio isn't "repeating" everything to the HT. I'm listening to the repeater on the HT, but talking from the HT through the V71 and in to the repeater.
The kenwood has a simple and quick access menu. This is the first of five dual banders that I didn't bother buying software for. The V71 so quick to program that the software & cable seem like a waste of money to me. Even odd splits are simple. I successfully fought through the initial programming of my 8800 through it's face, but it's SO menu driven that the software was a relief. I can't remember the exact function(s), but I did find a thing or two that I could ONLY change through the software and not through it's face. By comparison, the 8800 is still much easier to program than my 2820 Icom, which is a nightmare w/o software.
While the 8800 is easier to remote mount because of the mic jack in the control head, the jack is in ROTTEN position if you mount the radio to your right side (which most probably do). The jack is right next to the right side VFO control knob and about 1/2 the time I pull the mic up to my mug (which is left of the radio) the mic cord will change the volume or squelch setting on the right side. Very annoying... I find myself stringing the mic cord around things to keep it away from the knobs.
Running full duplex on the 8800 is all but impossible with the mic gain up and even with the gain set to "low" I've had to add a capacitor across the mic element because of the feedback. At highway speeds when you've got the volume turned up so that you can hear okay, you key up and it'll scream so bad that everyone on the repeater will hate you. The capacitor kills the feedback but you have to eat the mic to be heard.
Don't have that problem with the V71.
Squelch tail on the 8800 is noticeable but not obnoxious. Again the 8800 is in the middle on this issue with the V71 being "best" and my IC-2820H being really bad.
I can't think of anything the 8800 with do better than the V71 aside from not having to run a remote mic cord IF you plan to remote mount it. I like my 8800 and use it all the time, but if someone offered to trade a V71 in the same condition I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Interesting input so far, thanks guys. I'll likely remote it, but how far I don't know. I have my 2900 mounted on the side of the center console, with the knobs interfering with my wife's sitting position often. Thought about mounting the body there with the speaker firing out to be more effective and mounting the head on the center of the dash. Some Velcro strips to mount it to the dash come to mind. Could eventually relocate to under the seat and add a speaker then. Next couple of thoughts that come to mind....potential for packet, and/or aprs. I do chip in with local ares operations, and there has been a push for packet stations. The tm710 has the tnc in the head already, and a remote mount already in the kit? If I buy a remote kit for the v71a, that's an additional $40 or so, and it puts me about $120 less than the 710 in the best case. So may throw the 710 into the mix as well. The yaesu 350 is getting hard to find, and heard mixed reviews. As far as the Chinese radios, the prices are in the realm of the kenwood, and for that difference I'd go kenwood. Now if they were in the lower $200's, I'd be a lot more interest I think. I should add, a lot of our locals are bad for not letting squelch tails drop before keying up, though the practice is rare during emergency nets, as its addressed directly. Some if not all of our repeaters have t.o.t.'s of 3 minutes or around that, so to me its not really an issue. If it's being used to support operations, you should be able to encourage letting the squelch drop first. I think its an issue on the systems running that ridiculously long tail, I forget what xband radio does that though.
I'll start this by saying that I'm a Kenwood fan...
For that mic connector on the head/body thingy, I find that having the mic connect to the body of the radio is more convenient. It allows for mounting the head in places where having a mic-cord dangling would be very inconvenient. The typical mic-cord from Kenwood is longer than 'normal', that eases some of the stretching problem. If it can't stretch far enough, it only takes a typical telephone extension doo-hicky to make the cord longer (Kenwood offers such a thing but home-brewing it isn't difficult at all).
I've found that Kenwood's programming/menu methods are more intuitive, simpler than the other manufacturer's menu structures. (That 'KISS' thingy was made with me in mind!)
Long squelch-tails? I personally think they are useless and aggravating. Talk to the repeater owners. That goes for those 'roger beeps' too. (That's one of those 'personal preferences' thingys, suit yourself.)
There are 'work-arounds' for almost any 'feature' of any brand of radios. May not be the simplest/easiest things to do, but they are possible. If the other characteristics of a particular radio fit your needs well, then a 'work-around' or two isn't all that much of a problem. The absolute best advice I can think of is 'try before you buy'. That's also one of the hardest things to do though, ain't it? Oh well. Another little bit of advice that really does make things easier is don't let "analysis paralysis" hang you up for very long. The best choice for a particular situation always depends on the situation and will change with the situation. I've found what works for me, now it's your turn...
- 'Doc
For that mic connector on the head/body thingy, I find that having the mic connect to the body of the radio is more convenient. It allows for mounting the head in places where having a mic-cord dangling would be very inconvenient. The typical mic-cord from Kenwood is longer than 'normal', that eases some of the stretching problem. If it can't stretch far enough, it only takes a typical telephone extension doo-hicky to make the cord longer (Kenwood offers such a thing but home-brewing it isn't difficult at all).
I've found that Kenwood's programming/menu methods are more intuitive, simpler than the other manufacturer's menu structures. (That 'KISS' thingy was made with me in mind!)
Long squelch-tails? I personally think they are useless and aggravating. Talk to the repeater owners. That goes for those 'roger beeps' too. (That's one of those 'personal preferences' thingys, suit yourself.)
There are 'work-arounds' for almost any 'feature' of any brand of radios. May not be the simplest/easiest things to do, but they are possible. If the other characteristics of a particular radio fit your needs well, then a 'work-around' or two isn't all that much of a problem. The absolute best advice I can think of is 'try before you buy'. That's also one of the hardest things to do though, ain't it? Oh well. Another little bit of advice that really does make things easier is don't let "analysis paralysis" hang you up for very long. The best choice for a particular situation always depends on the situation and will change with the situation. I've found what works for me, now it's your turn...
- 'Doc
I see from searching you went with a v71A from a post a few years ago? I've all but decided kenwood, but unsure if I want to throw down the extra hundred for the 710 or not. If you buy the separation kit, the gap closes between the two models. I also see you're from texas
. Former Tulsan here, have to give a teasing to an okie, after all, we all know sits on texas!The major difference between the '71A and the '710 is the built-in TNC in the control head. If you don't particularly have a use for a TNC, or want to do APRS, the '71A would be a good choice (they are both the same radio except for the head).
I have both the '71A and a '710. The 710's control head does have a couple of features the 71's doesn't, and they are certainly nice. Mostly in what's displayed, and how. The '710 displays both the freq. and an alphanumerical 'name' for each memory channel. It also displays the time in the top center of the screen! Not all that important, but that comes in very handy for me, wish the '71A did the same thing. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either one.
Now, as for that Texas thing. I don't mind going there, some nice things in Texas. But I'm not going to stay there! They ain't very high, but I do got some standards...
- 'Doc
Do some shopping around, some dealers offer the separation kit with the radio.
I have both the '71A and a '710. The 710's control head does have a couple of features the 71's doesn't, and they are certainly nice. Mostly in what's displayed, and how. The '710 displays both the freq. and an alphanumerical 'name' for each memory channel. It also displays the time in the top center of the screen! Not all that important, but that comes in very handy for me, wish the '71A did the same thing. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either one.
Now, as for that Texas thing. I don't mind going there, some nice things in Texas. But I'm not going to stay there! They ain't very high, but I do got some standards...
- 'Doc
Do some shopping around, some dealers offer the separation kit with the radio.
I chose the V 71A Kenwood over the 8800 because it can be remote controlled from my hand held, or from my Icom dual band mobile from almost 20 , miles away. Remote controlling it from my hand held is more practical for me because I can be out in the yard of just a few miles up at the mall or just about anywhere within range of my HT and if I have the Kenwood in the Control Mode, I can turn on the cross band repeater, or turn it off, or adjust the power output, or change the memory channel, or even set it to a simplex frequency if I choose to do so. I have done this many times with my hand held using only 50 miliwatts. It's all done with the DTMF tones, and I always use one way cross band where the radio does not transmit back to me , I listen on my hand held since I can hear the repeater fine.
I don't think the 8800 can be remotely controlled in this manner but I may be mistaken, I have not seen "Remote Controllable' on the 8800 features sheet I read.
I don't think the 8800 can be remotely controlled in this manner but I may be mistaken, I have not seen "Remote Controllable' on the 8800 features sheet I read.
I really wanted a V71A but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I don't "need" crossband, but it would be nice. I'm currently running an Icom 208H, dual band, single transmit, but I'm liking it so far.
Well I went ahead and picked up the D710. Played with it this weekend inside, before going ahead and mounting it in my jeep. Accomplished the first task, getting a usb to serial adapter to work with the kenwood cable and software. Got some of the stuff figured out on the thing, was able to kind of get aprs to work, by putting my home lat/long in manually. Was able to send an email to myself as well. Will need to figure out why it doesn't list local aprs stations, or if it is supposed to?, and sort out how to use packet, and aprs with a laptop connected to the tnc.
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