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new antenna set up need advise.

sandpiperx

Member
Jan 15, 2010
72
0
16
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Denton, Texas USA
Hello Good People
I am moving my Imax 2000 away from the house and setting a mast tower behind a 50 ft tree kinda putting in a more stealthy position. This change will require me to extend the coax to 100" I am using now LMR-400 at 50 ft right now.

One of the questions I have is should I just get 100' of the same or any idea's on something different. I will be running the cable through Pvc pipe buried about 6 inches under the ground then up to the Second floor shack. Also any ideas on grounding. I have a 8 ft ground pole ready . DO I need anything else.. How about a in line lightning suppressor? I want to set this up right and any help I thank you in advance.. life is good


Mark
 

If you're going to bury the coax, I would just get direct burial type. If you do that, you won't need to put it in PVC, unless you really want to for some reason. LMR 400 is good coax and you can also get it as Direct Burial type.

Lightning protection and grounding should be done at the tower. The inline protector before the house doesn't hurt, but it won't necessarily protect your equipment.
 
I was only thinking about the pvc for long term protection, First time burying cable and it crossed my mind while planning. If I use in lightning protection Is there a certain type anyone recommends. Also is there any difference in the length compared to loss or function?

Mark
 
From what I know about grounding the tower for lighting (which is limited), you need several ground rods that are all bonded together at the base of the tower. I'm sure someone else will chime in with more knowledge on the subject.

Yes, the length of coax affects the signal loss. Take a look at the specs of the coax you buy and it will have a loss figure on there. However, you're talking about a 150 foot run, which isn't that much. With LMR-400, you're not going to have to worry about it much at HF.
 
that's what I was hoping on the loss Part. Booty Monster sent me over to the Davis burial line. I did some research and from all I have read that line will be perfect for what I am trying to do. as far as the grounding. I hope someone will chime in. The tower is about 100 ft. from the house. I was looking mostly to see if there was a way like a in line suppressor that would work from hitting the radios that are grounded in the shack.. So all of you understand. I have run many mobiles in my time but this is the real first base setup I have done and I am learning and have the time and resources (Thank God) to do it right..

Thanks for all the help..Mark
 
Coax Calculator

Using this calculator with 120 ft length of Bury-Flex on ch 20 and 100 watts with a near-perfect SWR match - you will find:

Your specific variables:
Bury Flex
Line Length: 120 Feet
Frequency: 27.185MHz
Load SWR: 1:1.1 (provided a proper match is present)
Power In: 100 W

Results:
Matched Loss: 0.889dB
SWR Loss: 0 dB
Total Loss: 0.889 dB
Power Out: 81.49 W

Looks like the Bury Flex should be fine.
 
This is what you're looking for to put inline with your coax before it enters the shack (or at the tower):

Impulse Suppresors | Arrestors

I've only used the ICE suppressors. There are others, but they haven't all received real nice reviews. You need to ground this thing at the shack with at least one ground rod.
 
browsing the articles at this link will tell you all about grounding your base antenna .
http://www.iceradioproducts.com/10.html
a LOT of it is way too expensive for me to even consider .

are you using an actual frame work tower or a series of pipe for your tower ?
 
The calculator was pretty cool. I am looking at the line suppressor and that was what I thought might work.
Also the tower I am setting up right now Is Alum 5' ft 2"round tubes, slip on tops that I have drilled and bolted together at each point mounted on a tripod staked to the ground using 2 ft stake rods driven in the ground. this is somewhat portable but is real sturdy. It is just under 50 ft ground to tip of the imax.
It runs up the back side of a 30 ft. tree for some stealth because I live in a HOA area. Our Assoc is kinda lame so If I keep it out of sight somewhat.
They are cool with it... Behind my 1/4 acre back yard is a massive horse farm. and the could give a rats Arss about it.. The Imax 2000 runs about 20 ft above the tree but the white pole kinda looks like the tree unless you are in the back yard. I also run a Dipole in the attic and a 5' ft scanner Antenna right outside the Shack window mounted on a Sat. dish angle pole sticking out of the eve at the 30 ft mark. have a great night guys! thanks for all the help. :whistle:
I am studying for my Exam for Tech Class. My test is in March and look forward to see what else antenna wise I can run up there once I have my call sign..

Mark
 
First off you may want to look at guying that tower a bit better.Fifty feet in a wind equals one heck of a lot of leverage and it can/will pull those little 2 ft. stakes right out of the ground unless they are cemented in.

If you want to run the coax underground I do suggest some sort of conduit. I have all my cables running thru 4 inch sewer pipe about 10 inches below the ground.The run is not that long, only about 25 feet, but it keeps things from getting hit by the mower and it also makes it a LOT easier to run new cables to the tower or pull old cables no longer needed back out as well as looks better.It also keeps moles etc from chewing the cables. Run a length of rope thru the pipe when you put it together that is twice as long as the pipe so you can use it to pul cables thru later as you add them. If you do run PVC pipe or whatever you should find the lowest point in the run and drill a hole 1/4 - 1/2 inch in size in the bottom and fill this area with some sand. This will allow the water to drain out. No matter how well you think you have sealed the ends water will form inside the pipe due to condensation. I noticed water dripping down the inside of the basement wall about a year or two after I buried my cables. The entire 25 ft run of 4 inch pipe was FILLED with water and was backing up into the house. The low point is at the tower end but I have the pipe coming up out of the ground about three feet or so and making a 180 degree turn to keep water out.The water was about two feet up inside the pipe. I had to dig down to the elbow where it turns up and drill a hole. I then dug a bit of soil out and filled the hole with sand before replacing the sod on top. I never had another problem with water in the conduit.

For grounding, there is not much that will protect you in the event of a direct strike. Things usually just get vaporised and that's the end of it. :eek: The idea is to make it as hard as possible for lightning to enter the house. First you should install at least three ground rods,one for each tower leg and bond them to the legs with at least #6 wire.Bond all the rods together at the top as well. The rods should be copper and driven in as deep as you can get them. I use 1/2 or 3/4 inch copper water pipe for my rods. Flat copper strap is best to use as it has more surface area that a piece of wire as well as less inductance. Contrary to what a lot of people think braided copper strap is not the best idea as the braiding causes some inductance which opposes current flow from a lightning strike and we want the lightning to flow thru the connection to the ground rods.All connections should be clamped tightly and never use solder on them. In the event of a strike the solder will simply vapourise and cause the connection to blow open. You may use bronze or silfoss rods to weld the connections as it has a MUCH higher melting point but honestly a good clamped connection to clean metal is sufficient. I use either stainless hardware or the silfoss rods. Silfoss is a trade name for oxy-acetylene welding rods that contain a bronze alloy and silver.The coax cables shield should be connected to the tower at both the top and bottom. You can use hose clamps for this but be carefull to waterproof the cable after and do not crush the cable by over tightening the clamps.You can install a lightning suppressor at the base of the tower and connect the ground side of it to the ground rods.Running the cables underground offers a bit of decoupling from the energy from a strike.At the base of the tower make a one turn loop in all cables before running them to the house but do not let the cable touch itself anywhere along the loop. This creates a bit of inductance which lightning does not like and forces it to look for an easier path to ground which should be directly into the ground rods.At the house end of the run it is a good idea to install another lightning supressor or at least ground the shield of the coax cable at the point of entry with another ground rod. this ground rod should also be bonded to the main electrical service ground. Above all, disconnect all coax cables during a storm.

BTW, for 22 years I worked in commercial broadcasting and looked after a total of 13 towers in our system for both AM and FM. We employed the above protection and only twice do I remember being off the air due to lightning. One time I sat at the base of the mountain and watched the FM sight get hit five times :cry: before going back home due to it being unsafe to enter the site. :eek: When all was said an done the following morning the only damage done was to the FM transmitter,there was a lot of VHF and UHF stuff there as well but unharmed, and was confined to blowing out the three phase rectifiers in the power supply and shorting the final tube six ways from Sunday. Not bad for being hit God knows how many times that night.
 
I had thought about the guy wires and might still use them. I also have 3-
2 ft extender clamps that I made that will clamp around the tree without hurting the tree and also clamp directly to the tower at 10, 20 and 40 ft, intervals. the tree is quite straight and is perfect running the pole tower right up the back side. But I will see once it is up. I have the guy wires and connector.

Just a thought also is the tree a ground point?

The guy wires are a option if the home brewed thing should fail. All the grounding and pipe info was great FYI. I had thought about condensation and was going to tilt the Pvc pipe towards the tower. I will drill some holes. Also I thought maybe some french drain pipe might work if I have the right bury flex run. The rope idea will be used that was a Great idea! Never thought of that one. Great info and thanks so much. this is really looking to turn out pretty cool..

Have a great day..

Markip
 
OK I see how you were going to mount the pole/tower, clamped to the tree. That is fine as long as the tree does not flex very much or it will bend the pipe. As for the tree being a grounding point,if you mean will the tree itself be a good ground, no. You can certainly drive ground rods in at the base of the tree if you want too and if you are lucky enough to avoid any large roots. I'm never that lucky. I have lots of tall mature oak trees along the riverbank behind my house. All I have to do to find out where the main feeder roots are is drive a ground rod. I'm guaranteed to hit one. :cry:
 
Well as far a the tree movement. there is no real flex until the last 10 feet I have doing black op's surveillance LOL.. on it through the last 3 to 4 storms here and I think she will work ..
But I will test and tune to see for sure before I mount the Antenna up there.
Also I have had the root issue here and might have to move the ground poles to the left about 10 feet. I have enough copper run to do it.. I have tried sinking it 2 or 3 times and get about 3 to 4 ft and hit a root so I will adjust.

I went today and picked up the extra rods have 3 and will drive and connect to the base.

Capt. please explain this (At the base of the tower make a one turn loop in all cables before running them to the house but do not let the cable touch itself anywhere along the loop.)
Do you mean a loop with the cable coax? Just a loop and wire tie it to stay? Then run through the pipe?


Thanx..Markip
 
Yeah sorry I wasn't too clear but neither is my head. Been home from work sick the last day and not thinking real clear. Basically just make a loop in the cable about 18 inches or so in diameter but do not wire tie it together to keep it in place. It should do so on it's own. If you wire tie it that places the shield in a position that it could arc from one part of the cable to another and basically bypass the loop. Here is what I mean. This picture was taken a couple years ago when we had a lot of snow,we have basically nothing right now. You can see the pipe and all the cables that make a loop.
 

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