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Royce 1-641

Nov 28, 2020
68
10
18
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Muncie, Indiana
I have a Royce 1-641 The receive on this radio is awesome. But will not transmit when you key the mic the needle barely moves to the right. The PA system works fine. Cannot find any voltage measurements on the schematic Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you very much 73s
 
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Q27 (the final power transistor) might be bad. The meter is driven from a detector circuit that is connected to the output of the final.
 
You would want to test the final pin voltages in sideband, TX mode, no modulation (turn mic gain fully CCW). In this state, the collector should be almost at the supply voltage, the base about 0.7v, and the emitter at 0v.
 
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is the issue with both sideband and AM? Or just SSB? See if you get output with modulation on sideband (turning that mic gain pot back up because it wont output watts in SSB without audio)
 
It is on both am and sideband the radio does not have a internal mic gain on the front of the radio
At the moment, I am out of ideas, but I will keep thinking about it. Hopefully someone else here has an idea...

You could go stage by stage looking for the signal to disappear if you have a scope.

I have been playing with the schematic in mspaint and I have started to label the sections based on the block diagram to make it easier to follow. Ill attach what I have so far in case you want that.
 

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At the moment, I am out of ideas, but I will keep thinking about it. Hopefully someone else here has an idea...

You could go stage by stage looking for the signal to disappear if you have a scope.

I have been playing with the schematic in mspaint and I have started to label the sections based on the block diagram to make it easier to follow. Ill attach what I have so far in case you want that.
 
I wish all radio schematics were like this because it makes it so much easier to see what things do. For example, that switch under the IF filter (purple box). When that switch is in the AM position, 3 diodes turn on, two in the lower half of the IF filter (selecting the lower half for AM) and another diode at the balanced modulator output that shunts its output to ground when forward biased. When the switch goes into sideband, the top half of the filter is selected (because those diodes turn on) and the balanced modulator output is again active. I point out this example because your issue may be a switching diode somewhere in the TX path.

There is more to do on that schematic, its just a rough start. I want to color the inter-block traces based on RX, TX, both RX+TX, Power, Gnd and control signals. I also forgot to put a box around the ALC detector diodes etc
 
That is great just printed it out. I just got a scope this week not sure how to use it yet. Would you know what I need everything set at to go through the stages? Thanks
For starters, learn your scope and be careful what you probe. Depending on the scope type, if you accidentally probe the wrong thing, you can fry the input. Digital USB scopes are typically limited by voltage, whereas many benchtop oscopes have a maximum current limit. Understand the limits of your scope and the signal levels of what you poke at before going nuts with it. There are also grounding considerations because you dont want to accidentally connect your probe ground to something hot (with respect to your scope ground) as all that current must go through your scope ~ poof.

In fact, I'd check out a few videos on "how to not blow up your scope" if you are a first time scope owner.

Assuming all that is good, the next concern is the probe capacitance. You will be measuring some high impedance RF points along the way, and even with a 10x probe, you can still load down circuits to the point their values change or they entirely stop working (the galaxy DX2547 sideband section is a great example). In some cases, you can add a resistor or a small capacitor to a 10x probe tip, but often times that attenuates the signal to the point its down in the weeds and a scope wont draw it/counter won't lock onto it. An active RF probe would be the thing to have there as it will not load down the circuit.

I built this one in a copper pipe based on this design [link here]. I was going to solder a short ground pin like they did in the article, but I got lazy and used a longer one with a clip (because Im not using it at VHF). It actually works great without even attaching the ground to anything. I get just as stable frequency readings either way. My hand (with it in a metal tube) must offer enough ground (definitely more capacitance than the input) and sufficient noise shielding. I am tempted to cut the ground lead off it.
 

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For starters, learn your scope and be careful what you probe. Depending on the scope type, if you accidentally probe the wrong thing, you can fry the input. Digital USB scopes are typically limited by voltage, whereas many benchtop oscopes have a maximum current limit. Understand the limits of your scope and the signal levels of what you poke at before going nuts with it. There are also grounding considerations because you dont want to accidentally connect your probe ground to something hot (with respect to your scope ground) as all that current must go through your scope ~ poof.

In fact, I'd check out a few videos on "how to not blow up your scope" if you are a first time scope owner.

Assuming all that is good, the next concern is the probe capacitance. You will be measuring some high impedance RF points along the way, and even with a 10x probe, you can still load down circuits to the point their values change or they entirely stop working (the galaxy DX2547 sideband section is a great example). An active RF probe would be the thing to have there as it will not load down the circuit.

I built this one in a copper pipe based on this design [link here]. I was going to solder a short ground pin like they did in the article, but I got lazy and used a longer one with a clip (because Im not using it at VHF). It actually works great without even attaching the ground to anything. I get just as stable frequency readings either way. My hand (with it in a metal tube) must offer enough ground (definitely more capacitance than the input) and sufficient noise shielding. I am tempted to cut the ground lead off it.
I got a BK 30 MHZ 1479B
 
I got a BK 30 MHZ 1479B
Cool. That one can handle the 300v peak so no worries there.

Pointing out a few things just so you keep them in mind during your next scope purchase.

The bandwidth is a bit low. 11m is right at the top end of what that scope is rated for. If a scope claims to be 30MHz, that frequency is the point where the displayed signal is down by 3dB (displaying .707*actual voltage). You might have some accuracy issues, but it is definitely usable.

Another issue with choosing a scope with "just enough" bandwidth is that you cannot see higher frequency oscillations. Even a cheap 2n2222 can unexpectedly oscillate at UHF given the chance. W2AEW has a great video on this HERE
 
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Cool. That one can handle the 300v peak so no worries there.

Pointing out a few things just so you keep them in mind during your next scope purchase.

The bandwidth is a bit low. 11m is right at the top end of what that scope is rated for. If a scope claims to be 30MHz, that frequency is the point where the displayed signal is down by 3dB (displaying .707*actual voltage). You might have some accuracy issues, but it is definitely usable.

Another issue with choosing a scope with "just enough" bandwidth is that you cannot see higher frequency oscillations. Even a cheap 2n2222 can unexpectedly oscillate at UHF given the chance. W2AEW has a great video on this HERE
Can you tell me how to measure the voltage on D 25 and what the voltage should be?
 

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