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SECOND STORY GROUNDING

KARATEBUTCHER

Member
Apr 29, 2005
38
0
16
CALIF
Yes my shack is upstairs, how do I ground my radios, running a copper wire outside the window and down to the ground would not work well, is it 96 inches and not over in legenth not a good idea.
I have no copper pipes in the bedroom.
Thanking you KB
 

'KB',
For an RF ground length makes a difference because if raises the resistance going to ground. A ground ought to be the absolute lowest resistance if can be, otherwise that RF will go where it 'sees' the least resistance. If the resistance going to somewhere else is lower than that going to ground, it just ain't gonna go to ground. Since RF is an alternating current, and since 'resistance' in AC circuits is actually impedance, then that ground connection ought to be the lowest impedance you can make it. Since impedance is determined by the frequency of a signal and since lengths close to 1/4 wave lengths have lower impedances than lengths closer to 1/2 wave lengths (when 'end fed'!), then the length of a ground cable should be close to a 1/4 wave length. For 11 meters that 1/4 wave length is around 102 inches (8.5 feet). So an RF ground for 11 meters should be very close to 8.5 feet, either longer or shorter (shorter is better, if possible). Or another way of saying it is use odd multiples of 8.5 feet, not even multiples. And, since resistance still plays a part in all this, that odd multiple length of 8.5 feet ought to be as large as practical to reduce the resistance. What's best? A huge wire about 3 feet long, or shorter. Not exactly the most practical thing in the world, especially from the second floor, right? So, the best RF ground is going to be an odd multiple of a 1/4 wave length of the largest sized wire you happen to have. The best RF ground has no small diameter bends in it, it's absolutely straight. 'Nuther one of those "not too practical" thingys, so make it as straight as possible with big bends in it, not small ones. Compromising isn't always bad if you do it right. So, do it right.
And as an alternative, you can use a counter poise as an RF ground. A counter poise has the same characteristics as a 'dirt' ground. Low resistance, low impedances, as short as possible. So a piece of wire 1/4 wave length long, but laid on the floor will work too without even touching 'dirt' (I'm not counting a little dust as 'dirt'). There is a 'catch' though. Changing frequencies also changes the length of that 'ground' so sometimes it isn't the best in the world. The second part of that 'catch' is that all that RF going to ground is composed of electrons, a lot of electrons composes an electrical charge, and electrical charges can bite the @#$$ out of you! Insulate that counterpoise, especially the end of it, very well! It not only 'bites', it can start a fire or melt stuff too. That's sort of at the extreme end of things but still possible. That counterpoise also acts like an antenna, so count on lots of RF floating around in the house.
All of that above is about RF grounds, not about 'safety grounds' or lightning grounds. A counterpoise is NOT a safety ground. Neither is the 'RF going to dirt' type of ground, unless the conductor used is very large. It still won't be the best safety ground cuz it's probably longer than it could be because of the RF thingy. ... Ready to take up knitting yet?
And lastly, braid makes lousy grounding conductors if those conductors are very long. There's more resistance in a 1/2" braid than there is in a 1/2" wide strip of solid copper, or aluminum for that matter. Braid makes for good ground straps where they have to wiggle a lot and are short. Not for longer, stable runs. Unless it's 'tinned' it also deteriorates fairly quickly in weather. Ain't all this @#$ fun?
- 'Doc

PS - I just happen to have these knitting needles for sale....
 
GROUNDING

Thank you Doc, very well said and very nice of you to reply in such detail.
By the way my wife was born in Okla in Bartersville Okla, not sure of spelling, she is an little Cheracee Indian.
Thanks KB Mojave Desert
 
What kind of antenna are you using? Dipoles don't require any sort of grounding, nor do most commercial verticals.

End fed wires definitely require a good RF ground / counterpoise.

As far as your safety ground, that's handled adequately by your grounding pin on your AC receptacle. Make sure every piece of equipment is connected to a single point ground bar and that the bar is connected solidly to that grounding pin. You can use a voltmeter to make sure there is no potential between pieces of equipment.

BTW - my wife is a little bit Cherokee also. And I'm full-blood Wasichu. (Next time you watch "Dances With Wolves", listen to what the Sioux are saying as you read the subtitles. Notice that every time you hear one of them say "wasichu", you read "white man" on the screen. "Wasichu" is Lakota for "Honky", as I was once told - by a Lakota elder!).
 
KARATEBUTCHER said:
Yes my shack is upstairs, how do I ground my radios, running a ****** wire outside the window and down to the ground would not work well, is it 96 inches and not over in legenth not a good idea.
I have no ****** pipes in the bedroom.
Thanking you KB

I do hope you have you mast pipe grounded in the ground...

If the resistance going to somewhere else is lower than that going to ground, it just ain't gonna go to ground. Since RF is an alternating current, and since 'resistance' in AC circuits is actually impedance, then that ground connection ought to be the lowest impedance you can make it.

and W5LZ , AC is also alternating current and resistance isn't a point we would be worrying about in this matter in AC...and I think he did say equipment grounding ...not counter poise (antennas)
but good info if you don't have kids,dogs,cats or anything alive to get shocked to death,if that happens :p
 
For equipment grounding go to a good ground rod, seperate from the house ground.
I have a short piece of c0pper buss that I scrapped out of a large breaker panel, but a piece of c0pper pipe will do, mounted to the back of my desk. Each piece, radio, power supply, amp, wattmeter, low pass filter,tuner has its own 10 guage wire to the strap.
From the buss I have 1/4" c0pper tubing running through the wall, to a peice of 2'' (yes 2') c0pper pipe, 6 foot long driven into the ground right next to the wall. I would try to keep it a short as you can.

73
Jeff
 
grounding

Thank youall for the good ideas, and yes my wife is 3/4 Cherokee, and I have heard the word many time, I read and have read heavely into Native american history all my life at least 6 books every three weeks. remember never judge a man till you have walked in his shoes.
 
remember never judge a man till you have walked in his shoes

ya that saying is about as good as gold in the past world...the way these kids are today growing up..pfft ain't even worth talking about it.....same with some adults :p
they need he hand of god to come down and swipe them across theres asses...to get a point, through that don't even work now days...:p
 

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