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Setting dk

Oldtimer

Active Member
May 20, 2008
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Stuart Florida
Hi to all.
Maybe a stupid question but here goes.
When setting a radios dk should the amp be on or off ?
I have read in some forums saying set the dk on the amp to 100 watts.
Thanks
 

When using AM, the carrier shown with the amp on should be 1/4 the PEP, if at all possible. You can achieve that by adjusting with the amp on, or turning it off, making adjustments on the radio, then testing with the amp. Either way, there isn't a set number that the carrier should be at...it all depends on the amplifier. Now the catch is that some radios do not achieve a perfect 4:1 peak to carrier ratio. For example, some ham rigs (like my Icom 746Pro are more like 3:1). If the radio isn't capable of producing a 4:1 peak to carrier ratio, the amplifier never will either. In that case you will need to adjust the carrier with the amp on to match whatever ratio the radio is capable of. Make sense?
 
ive herd and read much about the 1 to 4 ratio of dead key and modulated power and im in no way saying its wrong , but i know that cb amps are not linear .
my radio deadkeys 2 and swings a lil over 20 on my PDC 700 meter . thats a 1 to 10 ratio . sending that into my TS500V i get 160 deadkey and 550 swing , close enough to 1 to 4 for me . anyhow , shouldnt my radio be sending a horribly over modulated signal to the amp with a 1 to 10 ratio ? even though the amp is close to 1 to 4 ?

radio checks say im clean and ive herd someone on my radio and they sounded just fine . i see no reason to change anything since it sounds fine.......just asking .
 
There's no reason that I can think of to send a 2 watt carrier into an amp that has 4 2sc2879 transistors. That amp should be able to handle a 5 watt carrier, no problem. Your peak output from the amp won't change, but I think you'll find that your audio quality will be better. Perhaps on the CB bands, other stations won't appreciate it as much, but give it a try.
 
With any amplifier you have to know what the amplifier's abilities/limits are, at what level it operates most effectively, as it's supposed to. You start running into problems (typically too much heat) when you over do it. That also means that you have to know what particular mode that's to be used and how it 'works'. [The reason for that 4:1 ratio of modulated power applied to carrier power is that 100% modulation is produced. Any more than that always results in distortion. A modulation of something like 85% is probably all that should be 'aimed' for, gives you some lee-way for sound 'spikes' still being under 100%, and the typically 'ear' will never hear any difference. This is one of those things where "bigger is better" just does not apply.]
The important thing is that the signal being fed to the amplifier doesn't exceed the amplifier's ability to handle it well. Back to knowing what the particular amplifying devices (tubes/transistors)can do well, and when to quit so that they are not over stressed. There are limits, and those limits are NOT what is commonly thought to be (Unless you just like to burn things up). It all depends on time too. As in how long is that amplifying device actually running/amplifying. Some modes are of a higher 'duration' than others. 'AM' mode is a 100% duty cycle mode, an amplifying device is running 100% of the time. 'SSB' mode is typically a 50% duty cycle mode, when there ain't no sounds (between syllables/words), those amplifying devices are turned off. The devices work less with SSB than with AM. Since one of those 'limits' is how hard they work, they can work at 50% for longer periods than 100% and not get 'over-worked'. Make sense? So, just by going with the duty cycle thingy, half power on AM rather than full power on SSB is how to do it, and all that you should expect.
Then why do 'they' say it can do more than that on AM? Two reasons. First, 'they' don't know what they are talking about. And second, 'they' want to sell something, and/or are 'bragging'. 'Normal' advertising.
Next step. Pay attention to what the manufacturer's of those amplifying devices say they can reasonably/typically do, NOT what they can be 'pushed' into doing for a much less length of time. But it's your wallet that gets 'hit' so treat it like you want. A typical 2SC2879 will 'do' something like 100 watts with a SSB signal. With AM, about half of that. Usually, something around 1-3 watts will make a 2SC2879 do everything it can do in a reasonable manner. Four times the number of '2879s means something like twice that amount of input power. Just the way it works.
All of the above is a very general statement. That means that I am not familiar with your particular amplifier and how it is designed/built. The best advice is to start 'small' and work your way up higher in a very conservative manner. Not all that hard to do if the output of your radio feeding the amplifier is variable. If it isn't easily variable, then it gets a little harder. Same idea, just harder to do. (You can make a Sear's lawn mower into a roaring demon, but it ain't cheap and it ain't easy, and why would you want to to start with? Get a bigger lawn mower.)
The next best thingy is to find someone who really does know what they are doing, and let them 'do' it. If it sounds too good to be true, you can bet that it is. Cut the 'claims' in half and you're a lot closer to fact.
Good luck!
- 'Doc
 
sparkys says its deadkeying 3 and swinging 31 . my meter says its doing 2 and 20 . never had the amp on sparkys bird meter . maybe my meter is tight on the 10 watt setting . or generous on the 1000 wat setting .
 
what radio? BTW, the difference between the meters could be the meter itself, or it could be the power supply voltage. If your meter isn't an active peak reading meter, it will not show accurate peak measurements. Anyway, turn the carrier up a bit...it won't hurt that amplifier.
 
its a 78 ltw . no variable on it . my PDC 700 has avg and peak reading but i didnt have the 12 volt power connected to it at the time . ill try it this weekend and see what happens . the 500v has a variable but i leave the green button out bypassing the variable .

thanks for the tips .
 
my PDC 700 has avg and peak reading but i didnt have the 12 volt power connected to it at the time
The PDC700 power cord is for the lights, not for the meter circuit. It's not an active peak reading meter.
 
theres two different versions of the PDC-700 . one has an avg./peak reading switch and one doesnt .
this is what i have .
Astatic - Astatic700 - Benchtop 5000 Watt Power & SWR Meter - CB Radio Superstore WalcottCB.com

this is the other .
PARA DYNAMICS PDC700 SWR WATT METER - eBay (item 310077438823 end time Nov-20-08 10:07:51 PST)

i guess i should have said astatic 700 not PDC 700 . but i doubt it makes much if any difference as far as it being a peak reading meter......or not being .... .
i guess what youre saying that it isnt a true peak reading meter . thats cool though . i didnt figgure it would be thats why i didnt bother to power it . i figgured it was as accurate as anything else i could afford (i know , i know . its no bird but it hasnt got a bird price either) and i wanted a big easy to see/read meter .
 

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