The 10 Meter Battle

[Sonwatcher]

And how do you get rid of all the radios not that way that are in the hands of operators now ?

 

[skipshooter205]

I never hear anyone on 10 meter anyway why not open it up for the SSB and FM I hear that the FCC is upgrading and opening up the freqs? with a simple test? this would increase revenue for sure< i guess for now all we can do is sit back and wait :?

 

[C W Morse]

I never hear anyone on 10 meter anyway why not open it up for the SSB and FM I hear that the FCC is upgrading and opening up the freqs? with a simple test? this would increase revenue for sure< i guess for now all we can do is sit back and wait :?

(Sigh) We've talked about this before.

1. The reason you don't hear people on the lower portion of 10 Meters (28.000 thru 28.300) is because it is reserved for Morse and digital modes such as RTTY and Pactor. Phone is not allowed on that part of the band. Period.

2. FCC does NOT control 10 Meters. It is an INTERNATIONAL allocation governed by treaty and the USA has signed those treaties. A world organization called International Telecommunications Union (ITU) meets periodically to decide any changes that need to made to answer new needs. It is that agency that decided that Morse was not required internationally for access to HF. Each country was then allowed to individually decide if they wanted to retain or drop Morse. That is why the US's FCC is proposing to drop morse code.

3. Therefore, FCC hasn't the authority to "open up" a treaty-governed allocation.

4. We can forget about 10 Meters being "opened up" for the masses to stampede into! And they wouldn't-even if they had the authority. HUH?
:shock:

I, and plenty of other people, have dealings with FCC. When you get to know/talk to these guys, here's their take on the subject:

Past FCC adminstrations made huge mistakes with regards to CB radio. One was that they thought email, I.M., and cellphones would serve the needs of the public and make CB radio obsolete. They REALLY thought that, HONEST! Instead of
just dying away like bellbottom pants, it grew--not in numbers, but in LAWLESSNESS! The feds didn't reckon on the diehard CBers going in for "extree channels", big watts, and "export"
radios, nor did they think they would DARE invade other bands (channels). So they lay down for a long winter's nap. After all,
Congress in the '80's was into downsizing and FCC was no exception. Why, they didn't NEED that money for enforcement because personal computers and cellphones were set to take over. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! SNORT! ZZZZZZZ!

"Hello?" "Mr FCC man?"

"SNORT! MMFFFFUF!.........er, what?"

"Them CBers are talkin' on 27.555".

"You woke me up for THAT?"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

"HEY!!!! FCC MAN! YOU REALLY GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE OUTLAW CBERS!!"

"MMMMMMMFFFFMF (smack, smack)" AARRRRGH! *YOU* AGAIN"!!!!

By 1998, things were REALLY out of hand, and the complainants wouldn't let FCC sleep, so they appointed Riley Hollingsworth as Special Counsel for Amateur Enforcement because the Amateur bands were becoming an embarrassment to many hams AND the nation as a whole.
And something else was happening, too. The market was wide open. All regulations regarding radio were being ignored and broken. And hams began to hear truck drivers interupting their
Morse and RTTY QSO's. And the drivers were yelling, "GIT OFF THIS HERE CHANNEL, THIS IS FER US TRUCKERS---SQUEEEEEK!" Companies and individuals were being sent warning letters to STOP intruding onto the 10 Meter band without license. And it has worked up to a point, but not enough to keep FCC from going after dealers and individuals that get caught on the bands. So we now have this proposed
new regulation to squelch the use of "export" radios on the horizon.

The bottom line is still this: we have *40* channels at 4 watts and we are to use FCC approved equipment with no changes, additions, modifications. Period. There ARE additional "channels" (as the public calls them) available--millions of them, in fact if you are willing to study and learn how to prevent interference and how to operate a successful station without cause grief for your neighbors. It is still called the Amateur Radio license. It, too, has regulations but they are liberal and designed to facilitate and enhance the use of radio for dedicated hobbiests. THAT is how to obtain "extree" channels and operate power responsibly. Anyone with a modicum of intellegence can obtain this privilege.

Being "elitist" as some try to call it has NOTHING whatever to do with it. It has to do with being dedicated enough not only to LIKE radio, but to be willing to LEARN how to use it correctly, how to use it responsibly, how to use it with consideration for how one's own operation may harm someone else. CB radio is the exact opposite from this simply because it makes no provision for learning and makes interference to other users a badge of "courage" if the guys can "stomp mudducks".

Finally, when I read about how *we* are sitting around "waiting for something" to be handed out like a welfare check, I can't help imagining a row of buzzards sitting on a powerline waiting for something to die! Waiting for something to be given, not earned. Are we THAT lazy in society these days? MY STARS, the license is easy enough as it IS!! Next thing you know, they'll be putting licenses in crackjack boxes!!! (sorry, but that's the way I feel).

Yes, things will change. But it will not be THAT easy or simple as the "buzzards" THINK. You will NOT get automatic access to HF! :shock: You will NOT get automatic upgrades. You will NOT be "grandfathered" in! You WILL take the theory tests and you WILL know (to get beyond General) the "Q" of a circuit. You WILL know what M U F is! It will help some people, hurt others.

We'll just have to see how it plays out.


73

CWM

 

[C2]

That last post had entirely way too much dribble. My attention span for dribble is not that long, CW.

I agree, I never hear anyone on 10 meters, not even these unruley truckers. Once or twice, I actually did hear some data on 10 meters. Go figure.

"Instead of just dying away like bellbottom pants, it grew--not in numbers, but in LAWLESSNESS! The feds didn't reckon on the diehard CBers going in for "extree channels", big watts, and "export"
radios, nor did they think they would DARE invade other bands (channels). So they lay down for a long winter's nap. After all,
Congress in the '80's was into downsizing and FCC was no exception. Why, they didn't NEED that money for enforcement because personal computers and cellphones were set to take over. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! SNORT! ZZZZZZZ!

"Hello?" "Mr FCC man?"

"SNORT! MMFFFFUF!.........er, what?"

"Them CBers are talkin' on 27.555".

"You woke me up for THAT?"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

"HEY!!!! FCC MAN! YOU REALLY GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE OUTLAW CBERS!!"

"MMMMMMMFFFFMF (smack, smack)" AARRRRGH! *YOU* AGAIN"!!!!"

Hey CW, please help me calculate the "Q" of an 18 foot long piece of RG58A/U coax terminated into a purely resistive load at 165 GHz.

 

[C W Morse]

o

Why is it important?

 

[bandaid kid]

Now as far as what it would take to change things, that is a long answer, I think better radios that are cpu controlled would help a lot, ( do away with vr's and that stops the golden screwdrivers) with better radios there could be more channels by using 5khz steps instead of ten, why not use fm on part of the freqs? These are things that can be done and not touch anybody else's freqs. As far as ham goes there needs to be a entry level ticket that is in line with todays world, in that most people are not going to go to the trouble to learn what is now required just to try it, where as if the test was say ten questions common sense type things more people would a least try ham for a while. I know some of you are saying dumb it down, but that is not what I am saying leave the general and everything else the way it is just make it more attractive to the new guy, and when he shows interest elmer him instead of making fun of him! And if he says 10 fer BIG DEAL!!!!!!!


I posted this in another thread but I think it fits here as well. I just don't hear the big problem then or now that 10 meters is susposed to be in to start with!!!!

The exam can't get much more simple than it is now for Tech. Most of it IS common sense once you learn some basic theory and rules and regs. A smaller number of questions is ridiculous. How much more easy is it going to get when the questions and answers are freely available??

I'm no elitist and I do not look down on CB or make fun of it. It's a completely seperate culture and if you operate legally and don't cause me interference and splatter, do as you wish within the 40 channels.

But Amateur Radio is a completely different culture and radio service and one of its primary goals as listed in Part 97 is "self training." It's there in black and white. Enter and continue learning. Thats why there are three license
classes.

I have extreme problems with math. I always did. General theory I could understand but don't ask me to solve a math problem. Extra class is outside of my reach due to the math content of the theory. Should I whine and complain that the exta class tests are too hard and need to be simpilifed? HELL NO! What would be the sense in that?

I worked dammed hard for my ticket. I put forth the energy to at least understand the theory in the general exam. I EARNED that license! They didn't just hand it to me! And I feel I did something worthwhile.

I passed tech and genral on the same day. Tech was simple enough. Not much math. Lots of regs. Lots of common sense if you had most of the theory down. And if I could pass it, anyone who understands even simple math can pass it. BUT YOU HAVE TO STUDY FOR IT!

73

 

[C W Morse]

That's it exactly. I couldn't express it better. I think, too, it is this difference in thinking and culture that causes friction between hams and CBers. I don't really care what the 11 Meter guys do within that band; it is not my business. A lot of what they do IS against the law, and the minute outlaws start creeping up into the ham bands, I am ready to fight it.

There is a bit of work to obtaining the ham ticket--not hard, but enough to make one usually feel that he did earn the privileges. As you said, it is designed to move one ahead in privileges and understanding of how their operations can affect others. Also it tries to help one develop a better station with which to not only have a pleasant hobby, but to use that hobby to serve other people like the Katrina aid effort.

CB is a no-brainer (no offense meant) in that anybody just goes out to the CB shop and gets a radio (often based on what his buddy says is best), slaps it in house/car and he's ready to talk. He has done nothing to enhance his experience or learning. *Some* CBers then come to think that operating a radio is some kind of "right" and therefore, he should be able to ignore the law and do what *he* thinks is best.

So a ham *may* question that and is immediately labled as an "elitest" ham. And all hams are over 50, yada, yada. "I don't want to talk with them old fellers cuz they only talk about their
last trip to the DR, etc, etc". *Some* may even mock CB because so many operators want Amateur Radio to conform to the CB culture instead of the other way round. Can you REALLY blame them what with all the blatant theft of sprectrum and intrusions into frequencies bandit operators have no business on? If I penned you in your own driveway with a BIG truck without permission, would YOU like it?

But the truth is, CB was meant to be a utility radio service and a cheap way to keep in touch with friends and family and ham was meant to be hobby and public service. They ARE different---similar in some ways, but still different. If you WANT all the things that CB doesn't offer, then you should honor the law that protects ALL radio users and study for the ham ticket. Obtain all those "extra" channels. Learn why, how, and when to use higher power. Learn WHY a gadzillion percent modulation is not only not needed but is actually harmful. Learn how to determine what band is the most useful at a given time and how to recognize various forms of signal behavior like backscatter, short and long path "skip" (it's funny to hear an echo-ey, watery-sounding signal and know what it actually is!) Signals can travel around the world and you can hear yourself talking with a delay. And it isn't hard to learn these things--they just add to your total experience of radio on various bands and modes.

Don't wait. Move up!

CWM

 

[bandaid kid]

I never hear anyone on 10 meter anyway why not open it up for the SSB and FM I hear that the FCC is upgrading and opening up the freqs? with a simple test? this would increase revenue for sure< i guess for now all we can do is sit back and wait :?

Wrong! The FCC is decidedly NOT opening up the ten meter band or upgrading anyone or doing anything with tests, aside from PROPOSING that it may simply do away with the morse tests. And the only reason for doing away with the code test is that internaltional law, as overseen by the ITU, has changed. ITU says a morse test is no longer required for HF amateur radio licenses. Nobody is getting upgraded, the written tests are not going away, no ham gets to upgrade unless the wrtten test is passed.

And right now, nothing has changed. If you want legal access to the HF amateur bands, you must still pass the written exams plus the morse exam.

 

[bandaid kid]

That's it exactly. I couldn't express it better. I think, too, it is this difference in thinking and culture that causes friction between hams and CBers. I don't really care what the 11 Meter guys do within that band; it is not my business. A lot of what they
CWM

<major snip:

You misunderstood me, or perhaps I was not clear in my mssg. I STRUGGLED to learn the theory. It took me a long and difficult time before I was able to understand electronic theory and its math basis. I'm not stupid, I have a college degree and worked in a professional setting, but I DO NOT UNDERSTAND MATH!!!!! And how is electronics formed in terms of theory? MATH! EQUASIONS (spelling's not so hot, either...) I can tell you Ohm's Law. I=ER. But don't ask me to define the specifics or ask me to solve for E. I know the power formula only cuz it's the same as PIE Which makes it the same as Ohm's.

Want me to tell you how long to make one half of a dipole cut for 20 meter CW? Lemme find my book and my calculator and I will look the formula up and give you a wrong answer. Don't ask me to explain to you the theory that involves impeadence of a circuit. The math is too much. I had to stuggle out enough simple wasy to solve these equations wo that I understood what each term meant and how each term is uased and in what formulas they are found. It took a very long time and I needed a tutor to help to learn it. It was painful for me

Nowadays they'd lable me with a "learning disorder" if I were in school, but math is my only major problem and math is what makes up electronic theory. And I REFUSE to memorize the answers to the Estra exam questions just to upgrade. And that's the way I would have to do it.

When I say I EARNED the license, I mean I almost sweat blood to learn it. It was painful, many times I want to give it up again, but I waanted the license badly enough to keep poing. It was a very real struggle.

 

[C W Morse]

OH, you're not the ONLY one that sweated over those books and theories. Do *I* know them right off the top of my head? NO! Did *I* ace the Amateur tests up thru Advanced? No. I failed a few times, but, like you, I refused to give up. I kept at it until I was able to pass. So you and I *do* have something in common and can have some understanding of why *some* of us rather balk at the idea of having licenses handed out on a silver platter. That is what some of the posters give the impression of--they can't WAIT for something to be handed over as a gift rather than to expend the effort to EARN the ticket. That is why the tests "stair-step" upwards regarding theory. It is supposed to increase one's knowledge, particularly with regard to operating HF and why the entry level tests allow for voice operation on VHF only. The potential for interference on HF is too great, so the tests ease one into the "bath" so he doesn't get into hot water.

Again, the gist, or impression, that I am getting from some folks is they think that when Morse Code is (?) abolished, they will just waltz right in and partake of the feast with a free ticket to ride--preening their feathers for swooping down on
the dead body of Morse. Not true. Indeed, *some* hams DO resent that people feel they should join the party without paying the gate fee! But that is not what is scheduled to take place. The ONLY thing that will (?) happen is, morse code will not be a requirement for access to HF. If you are a no-code Tech, you will remain a Tech with the same privileges you had before. You will be required to take whatever test is required at the time to obtain General privileges. At least, that is what I am being told. I could be wrong, ya know! I've been wrong before--probably yesterday

73

CWM

 

[todt061458]

Good stuff! Great reading.

 

[CHARLEYMARBLES]

The old days were great guys but the reality is that ANYTHING that I want information wise I can get in less than a half an hour right here on the web.So for example if I wanted to figure how to make a 20meter j-pole I go to google and type in "20 meter j-pole" and it takes me all of about 30minn. of searching and I am off to the hardware to get material to do it.

And let me tell you CW the ones just slaming a radio and antenna in an talking are not causing you any harm cause they are most likely running leagle power and leagle radios.It's us that have been in it awhile that have LEARNED a little RADIO THEORY and a little bit about antennas that are the potential problem, and then only the ones that only half pay attention to the lessons learned as we progress through the hobby. You see we as hobbist are not much different we just get there in differant ways you read books and take test,we read books and the internet and blowup radios but in the end we ALL talk on our radios and enjoy ourselves


Chuck

 

[SARGE]

Well I try not get to involved in the legalities of the radio world because I dont know the law but im learning thanks to this forum. Case in point, a young friend of mine just started driving trucks and stopped by to show off the truck he is going to be driving and showed me his new radio.He said that this was a real nice radio that it had a lot of channels,it was a Connex 3300HP. I asked him if he knew that radio was a 10 meter radio he said he had never heard of a ten meter radio. I tried to explain to him the best I could what the difference was.I ended up just showing him the right band to run on and told him to only use channels 1-40. I told him the next time he came in that I would show him this forum and he can obtain a lot of knowledge by reading whats on here.This is one example of people just not knowing what kind of radio they have. Please forgive my spelling and typing.

 

[fortymobile]

The FCC don't Care....... we don't Care. how many have got busted talk'n on 10m? maybe be 20 people? and i'm give'n some ... there are 10.000+ doing it who Care's not me . it just give's Hams some thing to talk about.. not try''n to point the finger but if you snitch on a ham it may work